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HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › Grip Bearing Arrangement
01-28-2013 03:33 PM  5 years agoPost 61
BobOD

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New York- USA

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Volidas,
Since centrifugal force is a straight linear force, it does not matter where the thrust bearing is along this direction (at least not as far as the centrifugal force goes).
Since the lift forces are cantilevered, it is important where the radial bearings are placed. And, as far apart as possible is best.
If you did want to try adding a second thrust bearing, the best place for both would be between the two radial bearings.

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01-28-2013 03:39 PM  5 years agoPost 62
BobOD

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New York- USA

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that said to assemble r/r/t but from habit building others kits, I assembled it the "Veteran helicopter designers" way
Unfortunately, this does not always work out.

BTW, Raven, there is a reason many choose the r/r/t stackup. It's very straight forward to design and manufacture. In other words, it is easy. I could explain the reasons for this but this gets into a lot of variables and design and manufacture details. Probably too complicated for here.

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01-28-2013 05:43 PM  5 years agoPost 63
Ravenhyper50

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Canada's Capital

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Unfortunately, this does not always work out
No it my not, depending on what is supplied in the kit and how it is designed to go together.

Not going to name any but... I had a helicopter kit where v1 was
R/R/T and then v2 came out same heli R/T/R so it was easy just to swap around and all parts and all worked as they should.

Oh, I can see where the tolerances would be more critical for the manufacture to produce the proper set up

Bearing quality also plays a big role!

I'm down for some educational reading...Giver!!!

If others think they know it all, they can just move on
since this thread is beneath them

Cheers,
Raven

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01-28-2013 06:09 PM  5 years agoPost 64
BobOD

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Actually, they don't have to move on. I welcome challenge, as long as it is intellegent and aimed at getting to truth.
It's pertty easy to spot those who have other motifs and either do not want to know, or do not want you to know. For what reason, I have no idea.
I'm actually giving away my little tricks of the trade here. That does not serve me at all. In fact, if I were doing it for my benefit, it could hurt me. I'm a hobbiest, I like sharing things I've learned. And I know there are some who appreciate it. I have a set of r/t/r grips spinning 620's at 2400 to as high as 2800 and being hammered regularly for going on 2 years now. Several crashes, one that was quite bad and destroyed most of the heli. The grips have never even been re-oiled and are silky smooth. Arranged with r/r/t, it wouldn't last the first trip to the field. It makes a big difference.

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01-28-2013 06:34 PM  5 years agoPost 65
honda411

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Surprise, AZ USA

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I think it can go both ways depending on spindle bolt and washer provided. If a small bolt that doesn't have a large surface area I will use radial radial thrust. This is so the bolt can spread the load over a much larger surface.
Now a spindle bolt with bolt and washer then use radial thrust radial.
By the small bolt I mean something like the 450 uses.
Everyone's opinion works and I think whatever you choose is your decision. This is just what I prefer kinda

HeliDirect Field Rep, Synergy N7 w/ OS 105, Torq Servos, Cyclone/ Rail blades

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01-28-2013 08:10 PM  5 years agoPost 66
BobOD

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OK, you're probably talking about the inner race being quite thin on a 450 size. Yeah, I can see that could dig into a washer. A hardened washer should take care of that.

But, you made me think of another issue I forgot to mention. Thank you.
A radial bearing cannot cock on the shaft as the inner bore is deep enough to prevent it. A thrust bearing race can. If the thrust washer can rock, it'll put side, point loads on the bolt head and fatigue it. I've seen this happen too. Another issue for r/r/t.

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01-28-2013 08:48 PM  5 years agoPost 67
misskimo

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Alaska 17 years, before mississippi for 31y

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Well I really don't see it being a issue, I have a logo 30 , 1992 model laying here, mikado has designed the head back then till now like RRT, never heard of one flying apart, Is it best? Probable not. But it works just fine.
heard a shaft break, also a high head speed bolt break at 2005 IRCHA during a drag race, rappy, the blade slapped the leg of the guy starting the race.
So why bring up a topic that seams to go south like your last one Bob?
Everyone kinda gets pissed off of your normal response back on a thread that starts out like this
Actually !!! Or Unfortunately, this does not always work out, Or That doesn't necessarily mean. Or insignificant. Or. This explains why!! Or
Not accurate at all.
Is it a winter thang like mine? 6 months of no flying can get to me and so on? Alaska has its down fall .

T

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01-28-2013 09:30 PM  5 years agoPost 68
BobOD

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Are you arguing with me, or trying to argue the point?

Turning to cheap, insulting comments only shows others that you don't have good information that you have confidence in.

And BTW, the Logos have main bearing stacks that are more then sufficient for their loading and stronger than many. That does not mean it can't or hasn't been done better. What's your point?

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01-28-2013 09:35 PM  5 years agoPost 69
Noobyflyer

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Clearwater, FL

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I want the last 5 minutes of my life back.

I have a question. When I get an answer I don't like, I will argue.

Sounds like my ex-wife. Ex by my choice because of stuff like this.

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01-28-2013 09:37 PM  5 years agoPost 70
BobOD

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I love the response we get from people who don't like the result.

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01-28-2013 10:35 PM  5 years agoPost 71
RCHSF

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NC

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Img below is the correct way they install. It would be plain silly to think a thrust bearing would go any where but on the end.
Any other way would be like wiping before you crap.

You mean to tell us JR Heli Division doesn't know how to install grip bearings? Maybe you should call them up and explain.

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01-28-2013 11:07 PM  5 years agoPost 72
Noobyflyer

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Clearwater, FL

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time to find a mirror

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01-28-2013 11:09 PM  5 years agoPost 73
Zbawer

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Singapore

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I first asked myself this same question when I upgraded my T600N with thrusted Metal bearing blocks... those for the main shaft.
Here is the installation diagram from KDE

http://www.kdedirect.com/files/AT60...ion_Diagram.PDF

Looking at this I first couldn't figure out why the radial bearing were on the outside, directly in contact with main gear and lock collar. And then I finally understood that the inner race was in fact transferring all the thrust forces directly to the thrust bearings in the middle.

So back to a blade grip arrangement, I would agree the r/t/r would make sense.

However I would still disagree with the below statement :
If you did want to try adding a second thrust bearing, the best place for both would be between the two radial bearings.

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01-28-2013 11:31 PM  5 years agoPost 74
BobOD

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RCHSF, just which of the points made above, that clearly show the r/t/r superior, are you disputing?

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01-28-2013 11:33 PM  5 years agoPost 75
BobOD

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Zbawer, why do you disagree with the statement?

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01-28-2013 11:39 PM  5 years agoPost 76
Zbawer

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Singapore

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2 thrust bearings side by side is just plain nonsense.
And since there are a few heli designed with r/r/t that are still working perfectly fine, then for sure a r/t/r/t arrangement would be better of.

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01-28-2013 11:44 PM  5 years agoPost 77
RCHSF

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NC

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BobOD RCHSF, just which of the points made above, that clearly show the r/t/r superior, are you disputing?
I was saying that in the img above that I posted out of my manual would be the correct way to install them. The Sealed Bearings go between the Radial Bearing & the Main Shaft.

Grip> Bolt/Radial/Sealed-Bearing/Head-Block in that order.

Add I'll add, what ever works with out any grinding, or grittiness is fine. If the user is happy. I'm happy.

To each their own I guess would be fair.

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01-28-2013 11:53 PM  5 years agoPost 78
BobOD

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New York- USA

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Well, perhaps someone should call Henseleit Helicopters (Winner of the 2012 IRCHA Speed Cup) and ask them why they do it this way.
This is a sleek, well designed rotor capable of loads that of rotors nearly twice its girth.

I already explained why most others do it r/r/t...it's EASY to design and manufacture. Not better.

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01-28-2013 11:58 PM  5 years agoPost 79
RCHSF

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NC

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I have seen them installed like that above also. I just cant see how the smaller dia thrust washer could do it's job with a radial/sealed bearing on the end. That would defeat the purpose seems like.

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01-29-2013 12:04 AM  5 years agoPost 80
BobOD

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New York- USA

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That's simply a matter of how clever the designer can be. This is a particular challenge on tail grips. Generally, you can make the end radial bearing OD bigger than the thrust bearing OD. Sometimes that is the biggest challenge...thus some clever design would be needed.

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HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › Grip Bearing Arrangement
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