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Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › New Raptor E820 announcement
01-14-2013 01:21 AM  7 years ago
Chuck Bole

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Tulsa Ok. U.S.A.

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So my statement is that a 10s setup is ~40% better than a 6s setup.
May be wrong but i think thats what brought about the 6s 5000 battery. Trex 600s on 6s killing packs.

chuck
Team Synergy Field Representative / Rail Blades / Scorpion Power Systems / HeliLids
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01-14-2013 01:39 AM  7 years ago
Richardmid1

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Leeds, England

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It is the amperage which causes the most strain on the batteries because amperage is a direct measure of the flow of electrons.
Correct but you HAVE more amperage in a 6s 5000 than in a 10s 3000! Do you see what im getting at?

The 6s 5000 can handle 40% more current draw!

Chuck, your right and your wrong, a 12s 2500mah setup (equivelant energy pack as a 6s 5000) would be just as hard on the packs. People use AT LEAST 12s 3000 in 600's these days, this is why you hear people say the packs are cooler, more flight time, more power etc.!

Am I the only one who gets this?
60% of the time, it works every time!
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01-14-2013 01:43 AM  7 years ago
OICU812

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Edson, Alberta, Canada

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Energy density itself must be considered in such comparisons. Too far off debate doesent hold value. For example a 7S 4400 is same weight and slight increase in actual energy density over a 6S 5000mah pack, considering same C discharge as well of course. There as well are many factors of what true benefit is. Motor and gearing are the largest factors and optimizing those regardless of cell count and capacity.

Anyways getting very off topic here lol but there certainly are helis out there that have bad ratios and mechanical drag IMO create havoc on packs.
...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...
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01-14-2013 01:44 AM  7 years ago
Chuck Bole

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Still higher voltage and that means less amp draw..
I've been saying for a few years now.. 12s for 600 14s for 700.
But thats just me being stubborn..

chuck
Team Synergy Field Representative / Rail Blades / Scorpion Power Systems / HeliLids
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01-14-2013 01:46 AM  7 years ago
Justin Stuart (RIP)

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Plano, Texas

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Am I the only one who gets this?
I'm trying to understand your point.
The 6s 5000 can handle 40% more current draw!
Forgive me if I am wrong, but I do believe a 6s 45C pack can handle less current draw as a 10s 45C pack.

P=IV (Power equals amps times voltage)

So to get the same power, increasing the voltage decreases the amps. Since C rating is a rating of the ability of a battery to put out electrons, given the same C rating, higher voltage results in less amps (and therefore less strain on the packs).

The worst setup is a 1s because you need incredibly high amperage, so you need a 300C pack. The best setup is 20S because you need almost no amperage, so you need a 5C pack. We choose somewhere in the middle because 20s is dangerous and inconvenient.
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01-14-2013 01:47 AM  7 years ago
OICU812

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Edson, Alberta, Canada

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No chuck you're not far off really never have been. But it seems some folks do lose sight when I see people running 16-20s setups with tiny, tiny packs mah wise that is well, not correct thinking in longevity....Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...
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01-14-2013 01:49 AM  7 years ago
PJRono

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Minnesota, Ya!

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There is such a thing as taking it too far the other direction!
Should we start talking politics?
If you skip me I can't play!
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01-14-2013 02:33 AM  7 years ago
GM1

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Tallahassee, Florida US

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Whoa!
Severely HiJacked thread.
On a dog sled team, if you're not the lead dog, the view never changes.
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01-14-2013 02:40 AM  7 years ago
misskimo

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Alaska 17 years, before mississippi for 31y

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I think rappy might have a big winner here for there new 800. It's a tad robust. Thick gears and big ole main shaft. Power to weight should be great with good long flight times on 14s or more if you select the right power combo for the voltage and your style of flying .
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01-14-2013 04:52 AM  7 years ago
BobOD

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New York- USA

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More of what people think is a benifit of the DFC is just the head itself being lower IMO.
True. And the funny part about that is that a design with pitch arms can be (and has been) designed just as low. The reality is that the DFC has to remain low or the stresses on the links goes up. It's too low IMO.
Team POP Secret
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01-14-2013 07:34 AM  7 years ago
Richardmid1

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Leeds, England

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Forgive me if I am wrong, but I do believe a 6s 45C pack can handle less current draw as a 10s 45C pack.
P=IV (Power equals amps times voltage)
So to get the same power, increasing the voltage decreases the amps. Since C rating is a rating of the ability of a battery to put out electrons, given the same C rating, higher voltage results in less amps (and therefore less strain on the packs).
The worst setup is a 1s because you need incredibly high amperage, so you need a 300C pack. The best setup is 20S because you need almost no amperage, so you need a 5C pack. We choose somewhere in the middle because 20s is dangerous and inconvenient.
You are forgiven. Can someone correct justins understanding of c rating here im bored now.

P.s. there isn't a topic here to get off!
60% of the time, it works every time!
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01-14-2013 05:54 PM  7 years ago
KC

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WA

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We're bored with you too If you know it, answer it.

The e820 looks really good for a practical 800. Watching that video again, it couldn't be much more than 200-300 grams heavier than the e720, and taking 800s to Weight Watchers is the way to go until the voltage restrictions change.
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01-14-2013 06:52 PM  7 years ago
Sam2b

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Tacoma, WA

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I long for the day where battery technology basically has lower weight per mAh capacity and can withstand the amp draw pilots today are demanding. Until then it makes sense to me to help the amp draw problem by dropping one or more pinion teeth (depending on current setup)._Sam B_
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01-14-2013 07:30 PM  7 years ago
Richardmid1

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Leeds, England

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Ok Justin and kc, C ratings on batteries are equations, for example 40C means 40 × Capacity. So a 5000mah 40C pack is capable of 40 × 5000 or 200 amps continuous draw.

A 10C 20000mah pack will have the same discharge capability as a 100C 2000mah pack.

If you exchange a 6s 5000 setup for a 10s 3000 setup you will still need the same C rated packs.
60% of the time, it works every time!
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01-14-2013 08:16 PM  7 years ago
misskimo

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Alaska 17 years, before mississippi for 31y

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Well I been practicing that since 2002!
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01-14-2013 09:34 PM  7 years ago
KC

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WA

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Rich, how does voltage and current work? where's my popcorn!
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01-14-2013 10:08 PM  7 years ago
BobOD

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New York- USA

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This is sooooo off topic.
But you are dead wrong Justin. When you went from 1s to 20s, you forgot to reduce the mah of the cells. If you go from 1s to 20s and keep the same mah, you are talking about a battery that is 20 times the size and weight. Not a proper comparison.

Simple fact,
6S 10000mah 45c battery
or
12S 5000mah 45c battery
This is a proper comparison as they are both the same "amount" of battery. Similar size, similar weight, same total energy.

Put them under the same power draw (let's say 1000W for kicks) and both batteries will be under the same exact strain. More current but less voltage on the 6S and less current but more voltage on the 12S. But, both will be under the exact same stress.
Team POP Secret
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01-14-2013 11:20 PM  7 years ago
Justin Stuart (RIP)

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Plano, Texas

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Ok, off topic. But why do the power companies use transformers to bump the voltage up to ~100,000 volts to transmit power over long distances instead of just transmitting it at 120 volts? Because to transmit the same amount of energy at the lower voltage would require much larger wires. Higher voltage allows for less current flow, and it is the flow of current which heats up wires.Avant RC
Scorpion Power Systems
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01-14-2013 11:46 PM  7 years ago
BobOD

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New York- USA

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Because of the long distances. These distances are quite short on a heli and therefore insignificant.
And anyway, the cells of the battery could care less about the wiring.
Team POP Secret
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01-15-2013 12:08 AM  7 years ago
misskimo

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Alaska 17 years, before mississippi for 31y

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Naw Bob, it's a different kind of stress for your ex. Amps is what create heat, voltage don't , kinda or too a certain point that is
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