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Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › New Raptor E820 announcement
01-12-2013 10:19 PM  7 years ago
Richardmid1

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Leeds, England

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Beyond a certain point any higher voltage does not give you more power. To have more power you NEED a bigger motor, not simply more voltage!

You can smack the living daylights out of an 800 with a 700 size motor on 12s all day long. Now we have a huge choice in 800 size motors I see anything over 12s overkill.
60% of the time, it works every time!
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01-12-2013 10:27 PM  7 years ago
Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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FuturaSE, watts = power, volts × amps = watts.60% of the time, it works every time!
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01-12-2013 10:47 PM  7 years ago
Andy from Sandy

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Bedfordshire, UK

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Beyond a certain point and it would probably need some kind of certification as the voltage could well be considered dangerous.
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01-12-2013 11:35 PM  7 years ago
PJRono

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Minnesota, Ya!

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I think they already are!If you skip me I can't play!
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01-13-2013 02:46 AM  7 years ago
Justin Stuart (RIP)

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Plano, Texas

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Subscribed.Avant RC
Scorpion Power Systems
Thunder Power RC
Kontronik Drives
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01-13-2013 04:58 AM  7 years ago
Dr.Ben

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Richmond, VA, USA

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With each passing day, the number of people that would consider the absence of DFC to be a liability is dwindling. The traditional pitch arm design has stood the test of time; it's an asset.

If y'all want an earfull, ask Nick sometime if he would like TT to design him a DFC head .

Ben Minor
Peak Aircraft/Team Minicopter Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA
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01-13-2013 05:48 AM  7 years ago
Tbird

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Indiana

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Would like to see Nick fly this..
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01-13-2013 06:51 AM  7 years ago
Futura SE

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Fayetteville, Arkansas

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DFC is the answer to a problem that never existed. It is a DOWNGRADE and it ALWAYS will be.

Ask Curtis Youngblood if he would EVER have one on his heli or ask Ralph Buxnowitz of Mikado if he would ever put one on his. Get ready for a earful on how it is a serious downgrade.

Between those two guys there is a couple dozen major heli championships. Curtis wining them and Ralph's machines being flown to win's.

Arm chair weekend flyers are all that argue it is a good design.

Norman Ross Jr.
Team Mikado USA -- Team Insane Canopy -- Team Scorpion -- Team Evo Power Batteries
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01-13-2013 07:15 AM  7 years ago
OICU812

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Edson, Alberta, Canada

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I do agree with Dr. Ben and Norman on this. There truly is not benifit of DFC, other then looks if that is your thing. More of what people think is a benifit of the DFC is just the head itself being lower IMO....Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...
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01-13-2013 08:59 AM  7 years ago
KC

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WA

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Richard1...a bigger plastic gear weighs less than a bigger motor. I prefer more volts, volts let us rev smaller motors to the limit and get away with using crappy batteries that cost 1/4 of brand names.

I have saved thousands of dollars over the years by using more volts than less. much prefer having that option with 800s but we don't.
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01-13-2013 09:40 AM  7 years ago
misskimo

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Alaska 17 years, before mississippi for 31y

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KC is right on, the thing that gets me the most is everyone thinks bigger electric motors means more power, it's not like the big ole 427 in a vega,
That's the first thing I noticed was the 4030 in a 800 size machine and doing good.
This machine is telling me it is around 13 lbs, which I'm glad because in 700 form, everything was too beaf, like the extreme 800, it's too beaf up and weighs to much, or the heavy 700 logo, should have been made lite like the logo 600, but that's just me, maybe logo will get a longer boom so we can go to 900 mm blades and everyone will be happy.
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01-13-2013 09:49 AM  7 years ago
Richardmid1

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Leeds, England

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What has revving smaller motors higher got to do with it!

You need a lower kv motor the higher the voltage to stop the motor revving to high! kv has has nothing to do with power anyway!

Being able to use cheaper lower c rate packs is rubbish because when you increase the voltage you need to decrease the capacity to keep the same weight therefore the same c rating and battery quality is required!

I'm not sure how you have saved money when hv esc's are more expensive!
60% of the time, it works every time!
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01-13-2013 09:53 AM  7 years ago
Richardmid1

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Leeds, England

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Misskimo, go put a 450 motor in a 700 and see how much power you have! Hey maybe you could run it on 16s and get the power up?! 60% of the time, it works every time!
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01-13-2013 02:04 PM  7 years ago
tshelby73

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Gillette, WY

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Pretty sure it applies here also but in the oilfield higher voltage like 230v vs 460v results in almost half the amperage draw for same horsepower motor. The wattage would stay pretty close but amps would go down.Raptor E700 Vbar NEO Gov 1960
Protos 380 Vbar NEO Gov 3000
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01-13-2013 07:38 PM  7 years ago
KC

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WA

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Rich, et al, remember the story of Goldilocks?

There is a combination of V x mA x C rating that is 'just right' for the motor and rotor and weight of a helicopter.

Your example of a 450 motor in a 700 makes no sense, we are talking about the real world and what is practical: examples like the difference between a 4025-740 and a 4035-560 in a 600 size for instance,

the 4025-740 (740kV) lets you run a 10s 3000ma, lower rpm by 10% and get good performance at the expense of flight time...it has thermal advantages over a 6s 5000ma...

10x3000 = 6x5000. If I have a 10s esc already, it would make no sense, financially, to change voltage if I could buy $70 10s 3000ma zippy that performs as good as a brand name 6s pack...especially if I fly more than I post.

How do I save thousands of dollars by using cheap batteries?...it's not like we have to replace ESCs as often as batteries...my youngest ESC at the moment is one I purchased in 2006...my oldest battery is from 2011...I go through ATLEAST 4-5 sets of batteries for every esc...thats a lot more $ than any ESC.

with the tons of people out there that already have 5s and 6s packs and the distribution for them...it makes more sense to bend the voltage rule to me,

....buy an 18s capable ESC out of Australia and cheap packs out of Hong Kong. Why buy a few premium packs that will be toast in one good crash...argue and disagree I don't care...no way would I waste my $$ on batteries before getting the best ESC I could find, drop the weight as much as possible through figuring a practical combo of equipment, and using the cheapest batteries I could get away with because lipos all last the same amount of time if treated right.
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01-13-2013 08:31 PM  7 years ago
Justin Stuart (RIP)

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Plano, Texas

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Higher voltage causes less strain on your batteries. But more cells means more hassle and also more risk of personal injury.Avant RC
Scorpion Power Systems
Thunder Power RC
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01-13-2013 11:24 PM  7 years ago
Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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the thing that gets me the most is everyone thinks bigger electric motors means more power,
This is why I mentioned a 450 motor in a 700 with a sarcastic smily!

Justin, are you saying as in kc's example that a 10s 3000 would be stressed less than a 6s 5000 given the same heli, head speed and flying style?

So this is a 600 size heli battery example which if run on 10s is usually in the region of 4000-4500mah packs, THAT would stress the packs less compared to a 6s 5000 but not 10s 3000!

You want less stress on the packs you simply need physically bigger packs but going to higher voltage but keeping the EQUIVELANT capacity the packs are going to be stressed roughly the same.

P.s. love the new raptors, I just cant afford the spares!
60% of the time, it works every time!
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01-14-2013 12:44 AM  7 years ago
misskimo

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Alaska 17 years, before mississippi for 31y

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Hey I can't claim to be a know it all or ready good at understanding the math part of HV, but I do have a good bit of knowledge and fair common since of the benefits of what High-voltage has to offer, My dad was a electrician and I did learn a lot with him, I also been a welder since 82. So I deal with voltage and amps a lot.
Here's a little info of where it all started with me back in 2003 and 2004

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144441
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=166686
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01-14-2013 01:15 AM  7 years ago
Chuck Bole

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Tulsa Ok. U.S.A.

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Tony is one of the grandfathers of HV.. Running Badd Azzed Ions
on 14s back in the day..

chuck
Team Synergy Field Representative / Rail Blades / Scorpion Power Systems / HeliLids
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01-14-2013 01:17 AM  7 years ago
Justin Stuart (RIP)

rrMaster

Plano, Texas

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Justin, are you saying as in kc's example that a 10s 3000 would be stressed less than a 6s 5000 given the same heli, head speed and flying style?
According to Ohm's Law (V=IR), if you keep your performance identical (i.e. same headspeed, flying style, etc), going from 6s (25 volts) to 10s (42 volts), you will decrease the amperage by about 40%. It is the amperage which causes the most strain on the batteries because amperage is a direct measure of the flow of electrons. Voltage is just potential (like pressure in a hose), but amperage is actual flow of electrons (like water flowing through a hose), so higher pressure and less flow is better.

So my statement is that a 10s setup is ~40% better than a 6s setup.
Avant RC
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Thunder Power RC
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