RunRyder RC
WATCH
 1 page 2312 views POST REPLY
HomeRC & Power✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterFlybarless Rotor Head SystemsOther › Modify FB head to use as Flybarless head
01-03-2013 03:26 AM  7 years ago
Topic Vote0Post 1
groran

rrApprentice

CALIFORNIA CITY, California

MyPosts All Forum Topic
Modify FB head to use as Flybarless head
I was curious, can I just change the pitch arms on blade holder, remove Fb and their components and use that head for FBL? I know I'll have to add a follower and use same swashplate, am I missing anything and can I use the modified FB head to use FBL? Any other advise?
Randy Lafleur
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
01-03-2013 03:34 AM  7 years ago
WessCo

rrApprentice

Summerville, GA USA

MyPosts All Forum Topic
Depends on which heli.
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
01-03-2013 03:40 AM  7 years ago
groran

rrApprentice

CALIFORNIA CITY, California

MyPosts All Forum Topic
Trex 600
with metal head.
Randy Lafleur
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
01-03-2013 04:42 PM  7 years ago
Dee Flies 3D

rrApprentice

Farmington Hls, Mich - USA

MyPosts All Forum Topic
YES you can ~ & it's easir than all that. look at the stock FB head - there's a mix arm that is mounted to the flybar cage around the head block. If the cage is 'locked' so it can't pivot, then the rest of the flybar assembly can be removed. The FBL unit can be installed & programed, and the only thing that might have to be changed is the length of the arms on the servos. You have to get the servo motion in the acceptable range of the controller.

I've done 4 diff helis this way - no problems with any of them, except my Mini-Titan wasn't in the optimal range of the AR7200BX. It still flew OK.

Cheap way to try FBL without buying the head . .

I'll try & post some pic's tonite after work...
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
01-03-2013 05:04 PM  7 years ago
AmishKyle

rrNovice

South Jersey

MyPosts All Forum Topic
[url=http://rc.runryder.com/t599085p1]
Looks very simple I'm still debating on it myself lol
[quote] FB heli flyers will become the Amish community of r.c. helis lol[/quote]
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
01-03-2013 05:26 PM  7 years ago
ticedoff8

rrKey Veteran

Morgan Hill, CA. USA

MyPosts All Forum Topic
This "simple solution" can cause no end of headaches and problems - especially if you are new to FBL.

At the very least, you need to make sure the blade grips have the longer link arms. This will reduce the amount of mechanical gain and help the FBL controller manage the oscillations that can occur if the mechanical gain is too high.

If it works for you, then great - you got by on the cheap.
But, if you just invested $250 on an FBL, how can adding $50 for a new FBL head be a bad thing? It removes some of the "science project" aspect of your conversion.
Plus, if you need help at the field and need help, the first piece of advice will most likely be "Buy a real FBL head".
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
01-03-2013 09:43 PM  7 years ago
Dee Flies 3D

rrApprentice

Farmington Hls, Mich - USA

MyPosts All Forum Topic
Strange - the old FBL GMP Legend Elite head used a single mixing arm & it worked fine. Better contact Thunder Tiger & tell them their single arm head on the G4 is a 'Science Project'. Seriously 'tho - a single arm using the stock grips does a similar thing as the current FBL heads, creating a ratio between the inner swash ball radius & the ball on the blade grip to use the resolution of the FBL controller.
I sure don't know about any of the 'problems' ticedoff8 is implying, a long-time flying mate did a similar mod on a RAVE 450 & it didn't have any troubles either

Pict 1 ~ Titan X-50, Beast X. FLies GREAT
Pict 2 ~ Raptor Titan SE, Old Align 3G & 520 gyro on tail. Set it up as 1st try @ FBL & it's been 'Old reliable. 3 seasons NO problems

Pict 3 ~ Trex 500, 3GX, needed the most 'Tweaking', but it was the controller tho, NOT the head. All ironed-out & flying good

SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
01-04-2013 12:51 AM  7 years ago
ticedoff8

rrKey Veteran

Morgan Hill, CA. USA

MyPosts All Forum Topic
I would say you missed my point.

Because the Align (including the Trex 600) drives the grips directly from the swash, a longer ball arm on the main grip is critical to lowering the mechanical gain.

The silver head is an Align Trex 700 Flybared - and the distance from center to the ball is about 22mm
The black head is an Align Trex 700 3G FBL head - and the distance is close to 31mm
That's at least a 30% reduction in mechanical gain.

The GMP Elite is not directly driven from the swash - and the Elite head was NEVER designed for a flybarless controller. When I flew my GMP Cobra & Competitor with that Elite head, we did it "bareback". So, they were designed to be super stable and not too quick.

The TT G4 head is also tunable - that is the nature of TT. I love their stuff. If your FBL controller needs more or less mechanical gain, it a certain adjust-ability that you can use to dial it in with the G4 head.
If you need less mechanical gain on the Trex - forget about it.

BTW: I fly Align 3G and DFC heads on my two Raptor 90. And the fly great.
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
01-04-2013 12:06 PM  7 years ago
Dee Flies 3D

rrApprentice

Farmington Hls, Mich - USA

MyPosts All Forum Topic
Actually - I fully get what your saying, BUT you are missing a bit in your picts. The FBL pict shows that the dist from C/L mainshaft to blade grip is around 31, and if the dist on the swash ball radius is guessed around 26, that gives a ratio of 1.19 (1.2) OR (0.83).
On the flybarred pict, the important dimensions are not from C/L mainshaft, but the mixing arm that drives the blade grip. Each end is a different length. This makes the ratio diffrence.
If the cage it's mounted to is made rigid, ie: part of the head block, then the mix arm ratio will do the same thing as the C/L diffrence of the FBL setup.

The only thing i've noticed is that the cyclics are less aggressive on my setups than the direct link FBL head.

I will say that if the cage isn't properly locked, then YES there WILL be issues from flex or slop. So if you aren't able to accurately drill new holes for re-mounting the arms , OR small pieces can't be made as lock blocks, then going with a direct link head is easier.
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
01-05-2013 08:39 PM  7 years ago
ticedoff8

rrKey Veteran

Morgan Hill, CA. USA

MyPosts All Forum Topic
Or...
Spend $60 on the 3G head for the Trex 600 and be done with it.

Don't get me wrong - I enjoy tweaking and tuning and making mods to my heli any chances I get. But I've been doing it for 20 years. Not too many people have bothered to mate Align Trex 700 heads to the Thunder Tiger Raptor SE airframe. I did it using the Trex 700N SE flybared head. And then, converted to the 3G and the DFC head on the Raptor. So, I do enjoy a challenge.

To someone just starting out, I would recommend the easiest track with the highest chance of success. He is flying an Align Trex 600. So, just buy the conversion kit.
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
01-06-2013 06:31 PM  7 years ago
JasonJ

rrKey Veteran

North Idaho

MyPosts All Forum Topic
When I was going to go flybarless on my Rappy 50 last year I looked at converting the fb head. After looking at all the nonsense involved I ordered an Outrage FBL head and was done with it. Yes, an FB head can be vaguely converted and yes it can work somewhat but it really is better to go with a purpose built head. It isn't that expensive, it really does work better and it surely looks better.
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
WATCH
 1 page 2312 views POST REPLY
HomeRC & Power✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterFlybarless Rotor Head SystemsOther › Modify FB head to use as Flybarless head
 Print TOPIC  Make Suggestion 

 4  Topic Subscribe

Sunday, July 5 - 2:31 pm - Copyright © 2000-2020 RunRyder   EMAILEnable Cookies

Login Here
 New Subscriptions 
 Buddies Online