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HomeAircraftHelicopterAerobatic FAI F3C F3N Contest › Elev-ail mix for f3c
01-01-2013 08:56 PM  5 years agoPost 1
NIKOS PAPISTAS

rrApprentice

KOZANI-GREECE

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Hi and happy a new year to everyone.
I have 5 heli (2 90 size hirobo 2 50 size and one trex 500 for sport flying).
All my heli make the same think.....when i'm start to make loop i start straight and in the end after the inverted and in second half of loop all the heli finished with left ail and not in straight line that i started.This make anytime without wind -with the wind ahead or back wind etc.
With my 500 size this is more.Sometime i need to give with right ail and a little of bit right rudder to go out in same line that i start.
You f3c people use mix elev to ail to make loop without this thing?

Hirobo SDX D3 Fbl - ALIGN T-REX 700 F3C V3 FL HEAD-ALIGN T-REX 500 DFC

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01-02-2013 01:13 AM  5 years agoPost 2
Sherman89

rrApprentice

Morriston Fl

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May I suggest that assuming the heli is properly trimmed that you are giving the inputs on the tx and do not know it---you are getting on the aileron and don't know it and you are bumping the rudder and don't know it.

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01-02-2013 06:03 AM  5 years agoPost 3
Santiago P

rrProfessor

South West, Ohio

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All my heli make the same think.....when i'm start to make loop i start straight and in the end after the inverted and in second half of loop all the heli finished with left ail and not in straight line that i started.This make anytime without wind -with the wind ahead or back wind etc.
Welcome to helicopters 101.

All helis do that. It is caused by the rotational inertia effects.

If you did an outside loop, the heli will roll the opposite way (right). If you roll to the right, the nose will pitch towards the rotor. Roll left, nose will pitch away from the rotor. This is normal for clockwise rotation systems

So yes, you can introduce mixing for loops or play with the swash timiing. The choise is yours, and it will be a compromise.
(if you wonder which way to adjust the timing, when looking down at the rotor blades positioned at 12 and 6 Oclock, the swash would be ahead clockwise by 2-3 degrees)

I use different PMixes for various manuevers and hover, none for rolls as I got use to correct them by hand.

Helicopters are the most asymetric flying beasts. It is an art to get them to fly straight mechanically, the rest is done with PMixes and that thing pilots do with the hands: Fly.

Santiago

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01-02-2013 06:36 AM  5 years agoPost 4
NIKOS PAPISTAS

rrApprentice

KOZANI-GREECE

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Hi.
Thanks.
I trying with mix 5% for start to see.All my heli and the hpm 90size and ccpm doing these.In 500 size this is more from other because its small.I put the mix before flying o test in the ground the right position.We want to go a little right position the swash when i pull the elev up.
Something else....i put the mix in condition idle up to have the mix general in idle up position?the other manuvering like push hover he have problem?or i need to put the mix only in switch when i go for loop?

Hirobo SDX D3 Fbl - ALIGN T-REX 700 F3C V3 FL HEAD-ALIGN T-REX 500 DFC

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01-02-2013 06:32 PM  5 years agoPost 5
Santiago P

rrProfessor

South West, Ohio

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Try 1st playing with a small amount of swash timing change like I descrived.

You are correct about the mixes, Use one mix for one specific manuaver, if I need it.

The elvator-aileron mix can be made to work for inside or outside (push or pull) elevator manuevers, and the aileron % amount does not nescessarily be the same for push or pull.

Again, I would start with swash timing.

Santiago

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01-02-2013 06:47 PM  5 years agoPost 6
NIKOS PAPISTAS

rrApprentice

KOZANI-GREECE

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Explain please the swash timming that you said..
I have 12 fg and if i undertand is simple.
I put the mix + 5% for the begining (from swash mix ).The +5% give exactly (in 12 fg) a little of bit right move in swash plate when i pull elev.That thing i see with the eyes in the ground for the right move.The second thing to flying and see if go better or worse.

Hirobo SDX D3 Fbl - ALIGN T-REX 700 F3C V3 FL HEAD-ALIGN T-REX 500 DFC

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01-02-2013 08:21 PM  5 years agoPost 7
Santiago P

rrProfessor

South West, Ohio

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Nikos,
Yes, you can use the Swash mix menu. It is basically an electronic swash timing adjustment, (or to clean up unperfect mechanical interaction between HPM arms)

For aileron to ele you want slight ammount of down for right roll, and up for left roll.
Then right for up ele (like you descrived) and left for down ele. 5% is a safe start.
Visually check these on the swash, and the Servo monitor menu.

Make sure on page 2 of the mix menu you assign a separate swith (not the idle up) so you may test with and without the mix.

Test, and increase or decrease the values as needed.
When you find the perfect values, you can change the antive switch to be idle up or flight mode of preference.

Good luck

Santiago

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01-02-2013 08:40 PM  5 years agoPost 8
NIKOS PAPISTAS

rrApprentice

KOZANI-GREECE

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Hi.
Thanks.
So i put in a single switch for start and i see with flight test how many %.This for all my heli once in a time.
I'm going to be crazy with this.I told in one friend of mine and said that is my idea.But i flying many year and i know my heli.
After that i said....i have problem with my stick calibration but in servo monitor everything its look fine....So ...this weekend i have job to do.The weather condition is perfect without wind this days.
Thanks for help and have safety landings.
When i have results i write again.
Regards Nick.

Hirobo SDX D3 Fbl - ALIGN T-REX 700 F3C V3 FL HEAD-ALIGN T-REX 500 DFC

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01-03-2013 03:03 AM  5 years agoPost 9
Dr.Ben

rrMaster

Richmond, VA, USA

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How ironic that in another season much of this discussion will be a moot point with FBL controllers doing the needed mixing automatically.

Disclaimer: Some models will still need a little FF or precompensation mixing.

Ben Minor

Peak Aircraft/Team Minicopter Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA

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01-03-2013 03:25 AM  5 years agoPost 10
Santiago P

rrProfessor

South West, Ohio

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Nick,

I pointed out the mix for right and left rolls backwards.

It is up elevator for right rolls,
and down for left rolls.

(Thanks Ben)

my apologies, not enough caffeine in my system...

S

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