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Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterBeginners Corner › Piro Flip Collective Mangement Help
12-31-2012 10:58 PM  7 years ago
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HeliNutAndy

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worcester, MA USA

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Piro Flip Collective Mangement Help
I have been practicing piro flips on Pheonix and I cannot seem to get them down. My main issue is applying collective at the right time to keep the heli air born while flipping. Are there any exercises to help me with my collective management or 'tricks' available? I have a few different videos that I have been watching to learn the trick and I do not see much collective being applied in the videos. It's actually hard to see any stick movements unless they are wider movements. Any help would be appreciated.

TIA,
Andy
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01-01-2013 12:44 AM  7 years ago
wrongler

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Brewerton, New York

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Andy,
I watched the video's and have been practicing them for about a year, In my opinion, It is all timing and lots of practice. I can do a half piro that will not stay in one place. I seem to always be chasing it, but every once in a while I get lucky and get a couple that look fair. Just stay with it and keep practicing. I am just starting to try a full piro. UGLY.
Bill Whittaker
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01-01-2013 01:07 PM  7 years ago
HeliNutAndy

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worcester, MA USA

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I can do half a piro that I can keep fro moving without issue but it's when I try a full one that's when the heli either drops out of the sky or because of me trying to add the right amount of collective I lose it. Someone needs to invent a sim that will recreate most moves with a slow down function available and motorized stick movement. Pick a move and put your hands on the sticks to get the precise feel of the move

Thx Wrongler. It's good to know that I'm not the only one struggling
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01-01-2013 01:36 PM  7 years ago
Nycatt

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New York

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Struggling Here Too
I also have the half piro down and get lucky sometimes with a full one but like wrongler said "it's all about timing and lots and lots of practice".



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01-01-2013 04:26 PM  7 years ago
HeliNutAndy

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worcester, MA USA

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I found this cool little graphic that is helpful with the stick movements.

http://www.coloradorotorheads.com/piriflipg.swf
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01-01-2013 06:04 PM  7 years ago
povern

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LF, MN

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Someone needs to invent a sim that will recreate most moves with a slow down function available and motorized stick movement. Pick a move and put your hands on the sticks to get the precise feel of the move
Thx Wrongler. It's good to know that I'm not the only one struggling
___.___
Phoenix is close, you can get a movie of someone doing the move, then play it back real slow, showing the tx stick movements.

Use this functionality all the time.
Screw It, I'm gonna fly
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01-01-2013 06:37 PM  7 years ago
MikeyD_From_Indy

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Carmel, In

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Had the same problems still working hard at it, but have made tons of improvements. For me, much of the work is not the maneuver itself but with exercises that support the maneuver. For example I have spent tons of time learning and practicing morphing transitions. I have also spent enormous amounts of time with piros right side up and upside down, and not just cranking the rudder but controlling the rate, direction, and momentum.
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01-02-2013 04:59 AM  7 years ago
danewb

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abilene texas

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that graphic does show the correct stick movements. The trick to it is not to over fly the maneuver. The way I learned was to do a half forward flip half piro and stop. So now we are inverted tail in. Once inverted tail in do another half forward flip with a half piro and you should be right side up tail in. That will teach you the exact stick movements of a piro flip. Now if you work that really slow in front of you on the sim it will teach you collective management. I know it took me a while doing it real slow and then speed up.

Hope this helps Cheers
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01-02-2013 06:43 PM  7 years ago
ticedoff8

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Morgan Hill, CA. USA

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I have been practicing piro flips on Pheonix and I cannot seem to get them down. My main issue is applying collective at the right time to keep the heli air born while flipping. Are there any exercises to help me with my collective management or 'tricks' available? I have a few different videos that I have been watching to learn the trick and I do not see much collective being applied in the videos. It's actually hard to see any stick movements unless they are wider movements. Any help would be appreciated.
Do what I do.
When someone asks you "What was THAT?!?" as you fumble a piro-flip, say "Oh. That was an "Andy-flip", I've been practising them for awhile, and I finally got it nailed. The trick was to make them look slightly out of control towards the end and give the impression of immanent disaster".
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01-02-2013 06:58 PM  7 years ago
HeliNutAndy

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worcester, MA USA

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LMAO.
Do what I do.
When someone asks you "What was THAT?!?" as you fumble a piro-flip, say "Oh. That was an "Andy-flip", I've been practising them for awhile, and I finally got it nailed. The trick was to make them look slightly out of control towards the end and give the impression of immanent disaster".
Is a piro flip considered one of the most difficult tricks? I apologize if this is a dumb question. I fly alone and do not have anything to judge against....
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01-02-2013 07:10 PM  7 years ago
ticedoff8

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Morgan Hill, CA. USA

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If the people watching you don't know what they are supposed to look like, and you haven't crashed yet while doing them, then you are doing them perfectly.
Keep it up!
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01-02-2013 08:07 PM  7 years ago
DOKEY

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Northamptonshire UK

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Is a piro flip considered one of the most difficult tricks? I apologize if this is a dumb question. I fly alone and do not have anything to judge against....
The ones you can not do, are considered the most difficult of tricks
Ryan.
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01-02-2013 08:20 PM  7 years ago
HeliNutAndy

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worcester, MA USA

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The most difficult trick is getting an answer out of you guys
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01-02-2013 08:22 PM  7 years ago
HeliNutAndy

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worcester, MA USA

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I forgot the ladies too
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01-02-2013 08:37 PM  7 years ago
DOKEY

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Northamptonshire UK

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Try relaxing the collective.
Go up higher, then with collective at 0 degrees do piro flips without changing collective, allowing the helicopter to fall, now slowly add positive and negative collective only when the helicopter is dead upright or inverted (just small amounts large inputs of any control, are rarely needed during piro flips) you will automatically start to control the descent over time, eventually stopping the helicopter at head height or at a controlled height while still piro flipping.
Also a good help is knowing physically and mentally where your thumb is in relation to 0 degrees.

It took me a approx about 12 months many years ago to learn how to control piro flips to where and how I wanted them positioned, stationary, loops, climbing, falling, etc. and I'm still not that good, always a learning manoeuvre!

Once the basics of piro flips are learnt, it's so much easier to learn many of the other piro tricks.
Ryan.
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01-02-2013 08:40 PM  7 years ago
DOKEY

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Northamptonshire UK

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Have you tried slowing Phoenix down while practising, helps get the head around what your thumbs are doing in relation to the helicopter.
Hope it helps.
Ryan.
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01-02-2013 08:42 PM  7 years ago
Josh Kussman

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Superior, NE

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What helped me was to slow down the sim speed a little where you can keep up with the Heli and learn what your sticks should be doing. And also it delays your input so if u mess up u can try and fix your last stick movement and learn what u are doing wrong.
Hope this helps
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01-02-2013 09:12 PM  7 years ago
HeliNutAndy

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worcester, MA USA

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Thank you for the suggestions. I will give it a try on the sim tonight. I haven't messed too much with the sim settings but it looks like it's time to. I will try to keep my movements to a minimum and I will try at a higher height and let the heli fall until I get better.

Thx again,
Andy
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01-07-2013 04:48 AM  7 years ago
ZS-JAF

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Nazareth, PA

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Watch at YouTube

I fly on my own to and this video helped. There is also a smack talk video on it. Mine are super ugly but getting better. I like the last post saying don't use collective till the heli is flat. Collective is key. I was doing them today with the MCPX, that is really fun, 10 to 25 feet altitude loss.
I have a 3D heli, I don't understand why it doesn't do 3D.
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01-07-2013 01:50 PM  7 years ago
HeliNutAndy

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worcester, MA USA

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Thank you for the link. That particular video has been the most help to me for some reason I can relate to it or understand it much better. I have the SmackTalk video but I am finding their videos hard to learn from. I purchased their video on Sims and I wish it was a bit more informative. I have Pheonix but there is a particular 'view' available in RealFlight that allows you to follow the heli. It is not like the chase function in Pheonix. I may have to get Realflight just for that feature alone. Thx for the help
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Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterBeginners Corner › Piro Flip Collective Mangement Help
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