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Home🌌Off TopicsOff Topics News & Politics › Gun Control Didn't work in Australia Why Will it Work Here
01-13-2013 01:05 PM  7 years ago
baby uh1

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After WW1 Britain almost completely disarmed it's self under the delusion that war could never happen again.
How did that work out?
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01-13-2013 01:25 PM  7 years ago
Dusty1000

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That's exactly what Norway said :
How many young teenagers on a Island did he cut down ?? 45 or 50 ???
Then they made a phone call ???
To live with out Self Defense is foolish & complacent
Apathy
Neither the UK or Australia can defend themselves from one guy with a gun?

Dusty
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01-13-2013 01:31 PM  7 years ago
Dusty1000

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YEP. IT'S CALLED BEING A PU$$Y
That term must have a different meaning in the US. In English, apart from being another name for a domestic cat, calling someone a ''pussy'' implies that they are scared of something. For example, rugby players may consider American football players to be pussies, as the game is similar, yet rugby players don't wear protective helmets and all the rest of it. Or someone who isn't scared to walk down the street without a gun, might call someone who is scared to walk down the street without a gun, a pussy.
Ask the Jews how that worked out for them.
Had civilian Jews in Germany and Eastern Europe been armed, then so would the majority Jew-hating Christians. I don't see how that would have worked out any better for the Jews.

Dusty
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01-13-2013 01:32 PM  7 years ago
Dusty1000

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After WW1 Britain almost completely disarmed it's self
In what way? While the size of the Royal Navy was significantly reduced after WW1, it was still the biggest navy in the world at the outset of WW2. The British army had more tanks and artillery pieces than the Germans did.

Dusty
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01-13-2013 01:48 PM  7 years ago
Hoggy42

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How many young teenagers on a Island did he cut down ?? 45 or 50 ???
Well they were not all teenagers and it was more like 77 in total inculding the bomb that went first.

I've done my best to get this information correct however not living in Norway I'm having to go from what I can find on the internet. So please forgive if this is not 100% right and if your reading this from Norway please correct me and I'll edit my posts.

This guy the killer is not too unlike many of you here (Before you flame me I know your not bad people who would do this sort of thing I'm not suggesting that at all) But he was unhappy with the Goverment the people he killed were from the youth division of the ruling Norwegian Labour Party. Now from what I can gather he was against Islam and immigration and decided he'd take on the goverment with force. He admitted to having carried out the actions he was accused of, but denied criminal guilt and claimed the defence of necessity.

The guy is not insane he is a terrorist (And was charged as one)and from what I can gather started planning back in 2002 he was preparing for them somewhere around 2009.

Now here is the part which you guys should enjoy he went to other countrys in Europe to buy his guns He chose the Czech Republic because the country has some of the most relaxed laws regarding guns and drugs in Europe where he was unable to buy any weapons.

He ended up getting the weapon legally in Norway a .223-caliber Ruger Mini-14 he then got 10 30-round magazines from the good old USA He also had a Glock pistol which was harder to get but he had it again legally and he then got some magazines for that again from the USA

Now you suggest that had everybody there that day been able to own a gun someone might have been able to stop him I don't disagee with you good chance they might have. That said alot of the dead were under 18 and I'm pretty sure that no state in the USA allows under 18s to own guns? so not everyone would have been able to. Also the guy was dressed as a cop.

Then we have this to look at you guys have guns lots of guns yet the gunman at this latest school shooting was not stopped by anyone but himself. So just because your armed doesn't mean you are going to stop what's going on be it a mass shooter a gang banger or that guy breaking into your house late at night. At any rate last time I checked one bullet was enough to kill a person with a clean shot no matter what weapon they have. So again the agument about assualt rifles comes back why do you need one? why do you need large clips? when you can defend yourself with a 6 shooter? and if you say you can't then go back to the range get some help learn to shoot.
YEP. IT'S CALLED BEING A PU$$Y. Ask the Jews how that worked out for them.
A bit different don't you think? an invading army. If an army big enough to defeat the US armed forces and the Allied forces who are always supporting you guys rolls into town I suggest the get your white flag. Because if the allied forces fail you don't stand a chance.

How many times you been robbed Fla heli boy? house broken into? faced gang bangers? I bet you'd pee you pants and hesitate too long to pull the trigger or are you an ex marine? think about these things when you start calling PU$$Y
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01-13-2013 02:33 PM  7 years ago
baby uh1

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In what way? While the size of the Royal Navy was significantly reduced after WW1, it was still the biggest navy in the world at the outset of WW2. The British army had more tanks and artillery pieces than the Germans did.

Dusty
IN 1940-41 the British were screaming for small arms to defend the homeland. We sent millions of guns over to resupply them.
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01-13-2013 05:22 PM  7 years ago
fla heli boy

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sorry to disappoint, I'd pull the trigger in a heartbeat.
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01-13-2013 06:21 PM  7 years ago
GREYEAGLE

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How ever THEY try to Spin it or Distract it - to Send it Off course of Focus of Discernment

Still won't work Falsification thru Confusion even when attempted with intention. "If it's Tran's-Escolated" (mean's to Fib).

For it is by FREE Choice Not to be determined or taken away by others - even if their SNEAKY. Sneaky is the Hilarious part - that's the water mark identifier DING - DING -DING / FOCUS

It's kinda the "LIBERTY" thing which is followed by the Justice thing : TWo Word's : MANY are just learning about the foundation's and how much rest's upon them - the weight of FREE CHOICE

Which is then followed by ALL - ONE NATION UNDER --- THING

a WHOLE BUNCH OF 50 DOLLAR WORD'S THEIR TOO! in print
fer spending

sincerely apologize on the death data in Norway -It was WAY OFF ! !!

DON'T THINK THAT WILL EVER HAPPEN AGAIN From now on maybe the Water Nymphs and Manley men will be carrying more than comb's and hair brushes.

Don't even go into the Flag thing : We only have one - US of A
Has Star's / STRIPE's /Red and Blue and White each representing some thing very special

They write all sort's of Song's about it - in HONOR Kinda like about dem guy's " OH When THE ------'s go MARCHING IN "

They call us - we deliver - HOT and READY For the down trodden and helpless - the Weak and BROKEN :

We are kinda the Un YOKER's
greyeagle
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01-13-2013 08:04 PM  7 years ago
Dusty1000

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IN 1940-41 the British were screaming for small arms to defend the homeland. We sent millions of guns over to resupply them.
So because of that, did you just assume we had ''almost completely disarmed after WW1''?

After Hitler managed to bypass the allied defenses by sneaking the bulk of the German army through the Arden into Northern France without being spotted, and cut off the British supply lines, the hundreds of thousands of British troops who were there had to abandon most of their weaponry in France (after making it unusable as it would fall into the hands of the Germans), and many of them arrived back in England without even their guns. Even though there were other parts of the army fighting in and occupying other parts of the world, as were our commonwealth allies such as Australia and Canada, the reason there was a severe and urgent shortage of weapons in the UK was because most of them had been abandoned in France, and the Battle of Britain was imminent. Even though the RAF won it, and Hitler would have had to defeat most of the navy as well as the RAF before mounting a land invasion, we did nevertheless prepare for the eventuality. That would be why you sent some small arms over.

We still had a huge shipbuilding industry, and we must have had a large arms manufacturing industry as well, as the British army used to have a policy that everything it used must be manufactured in the UK, although exceptions were obviously made in wartime when we bought weapons from abroad if we needed to do so. Swapped British military bases for US ships etc. We also used to supply all the foreign armies we built and controlled throughout the empire, and we probably supplied many of our commonwealth allies as well. While along with our cities and airfields, our shipyards and factories were heavily bombed by the Germans during the Battle of Britain, we turned non-weapons factories into weapons factories, and evidently still had enough arms manufacturing capability left to successfully defend Britain, bomb Germany, and continue to supply our own and other armies fighting on other fronts in other parts of the world.

At the outset of WW1, 40% of the world's assets were British owned. By the end of WW1, we were heavily in debt, so the size of our armed forces were reduced accordingly. Even though the US and Germany were catching up, Britain was still considered to be the world's foremost military as well as economic and imperial superpower at the time, so you would be wrong to say that we had ''almost completely disarmed.''

Even when the British public could walk around armed if they wanted to, very few apparently chose to do so, so we've never had much of a small arms industry to cater for the general public, due to lack of demand. Remember, we were living in a well ordered long-standing and secure society, when you were still running around shooting Indians, and worrying that the British might invade. Before the days of effective warplanes, naval power was all-important, because you could supply your armies and cut off enemy supply lines. Had the French, Spanish and Dutch not intervened on your behalf during the American War of Independence by cutting off the British supply lines, those rebel colonists and the few small ships they could muster would probably have been defeated pretty quickly.

Dusty
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01-13-2013 08:52 PM  7 years ago
GREYEAGLE

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Can't wait for you too write the linage and genealogy of OBAMA :

That stuff is worth publishing -

If ANY thing comes from your effort - It may drive the youth into ACTUALLY READING HISTORY / TRUTH AND FACT AND DETAIL of the event's in just ONE Campaign Theater

Start around 1937 then look at the WHOLE aggregate : Including ITALY and FRANCE : Then the WuZZIES

Their was at a minimum of FOUR - then the small skirmishes

Best part: 4Year's then -THE AFTER"S / THOSE YEAR"S as they picked up the brick's and pushed them home in baby carriage's

Worthy least a script for THE Hobbit's or Harry Potter

Slick : To Many Kipper's in Your Diet
greyeagle
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01-13-2013 09:32 PM  7 years ago
baby uh1

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Even when the British public could walk around armed if they wanted to, very few apparently chose to do so, so we've never had much of a small arms industry to cater for the general public, due to lack of demand.
Laughable! Have you ever heard of the British Bulldog? The most popular carry gun of the 18th century?
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01-13-2013 10:23 PM  7 years ago
GREYEAGLE

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That's nothing !I think Kal Teck has got a new wiz bang twin tube magazine Bul Pup - you can shift from either tube to the schnozzel.
Each tube can carry 4 or 5 regular's = 10 or you can even mix and match. for the glitter one's.
Or you can put them little itty bitties in it. You can even go one at a time and take turn's

It's so buggly ugly : I smile when I see it - think you need to wear a glove - Got give creativity and ingenuity credit where it is due !
greyeagle
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01-13-2013 11:51 PM  7 years ago
fla heli boy

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I've been thinking about the Taurus Judge. Can shoot either 410 shotgun shells or 45 acp. Can even mix and match in the same cylinder. Not real practical but it looks like fun!!!
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01-14-2013 12:03 AM  7 years ago
Dusty1000

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Laughable! Have you ever heard of the British Bulldog?
Of course I have. A British car insurance company still uses the comparison in it's ads.

The most popular carry gun of the 18th century?
I hadn't heard of it before now, but wiki tells me that it was introduced by a manufacturer in the UK, then copied by three manufacturers in the US, so I'm guessing it was considerably more popular in the US than it was in the UK.

Much of the US constitution and bill of rights, is based on the English common law that existed in England and the colonies at the time, including the right to bear arms. That wasn't restricted in the UK until after the Napoleonic wars, as part of the vagrancy act, when large numbers of armed vagrant war veterans were roaming the country causing havoc, and laws were introduced to allow the police to disarm anyone they found roaming around armed ''with intent to cause harm,'' or words to that effect. While the solution in the US may have been for the law abiding public to buy more guns, we decided to disarm those who would intend to cause harm to the law abiding public.

The same again happened after WW1 as happened after the Napoleonic wars, when new laws meant most types of firearms required a licence, and only ''responsible'' people could get licences. Even then though not all types of firearms were included. Shotguns for example were freely available without any paperwork, which is probably why the sawn-off shotgun became the bank-robber's weapon of choice. We enact laws to counter problems as they arise, including problems involving guns.

This is where the mentality on guns in our countries differs to this day. While your priority is to have guns to defend yourselves from the bad guys, our priority is to take the guns away from the bad guys. Responsible law abiding and mentally healthy people want to buy a rifle for hunting or shooting at a range or whatever, can still do so. You will never hear much debate advocating less strict gun laws in the UK from within the UK though, because there isn't any to speak of, as the vast majority of law abiding citizens who don't have guns, don't want them, and it's been that way for a very long time.

The US has more in common with Australia than it does with the UK in this respect, as both are former British colonies where first the colonies then the countries were founded by shooting any natives who disagreed, and then some. Both were fledgling countries when the UK was well established. Even so, gun laws in Australia have gone much the same way as in the UK and much of the rest of the world, while the laws in the US remain much the same as they were.

The main difference regarding smuggling illegal guns is that no doubt it's considerably easier to smuggle guns into the US than into the UK or Australia because the US is not an island. Whatever solutions you try to fix the problem of bad guys shooting innocent people, I hope they work out for you, like our solutions have worked for us.

Dusty
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01-14-2013 12:30 AM  7 years ago
GREYEAGLE

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Solution is elementary simple

The self defense item is the only tool that sort's and eliminates the El -Stupido & Idiot's all by it self. Some learn, and then some never get the opportunity

Then all you got is the smart one's :

Kinda like the Frying pan is Only a Frying pan. Until you turn it into a Assault weapon - and how many time's you assault with it .

The United State's has also got a pretty good rotating staff of talented and experienced trainer's: Young and Old

They kinda help the not so wise one's - on the learning curve. Education is one of the thing's they can never take away. It's a pretty valued thing - that came with Freedom.

Women and Men experienced trainer's -- their ALL GOOD !!! Bunches . Heck - they learn to eat with them / sleep with them / take them apart - put them together / replace worn part's / clean them / walk with them /hold them ect. Some have name's for them and favorite's like pet's or loved one's Some have specialties .

It's a Cultural thing
greyeagle
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01-14-2013 09:21 AM  7 years ago
shawmcky

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Hope they are better at that than they are at teaching comprehensible English Grey.Team- unbiased opinion.K.I.S.S principle upheld here
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01-14-2013 02:40 PM  7 years ago
Dennis (RIP)

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01-14-2013 02:57 PM  7 years ago
GREYEAGLE

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Do they teach anything any more in the UK of the empire of Germania ?
WW I or WWII or the Afrika or Pacific Campaign's thru the Med or Asia or part's of Indonesia ??

How a culture and population infiltrated most of all UK and took it over. All the small countries -- because the population's had little to defend themselves ?? Before it became the UK ? When it really was Europe a Continent of smaller areas' and cities

Why many city name's are no longer on map's - intentionally erased ? or have been changed. No Longer ??

Why military archeology is Huge in Europe ?? Digging it up ??

Maybe just pick one City, and one particular date, on one particular year.

Then let them know that their is almost as much of the City under ground as their is above - MILEs of tunnel's and bunkers still their.?

That when it was finally over come - it took almost one million Russian's in the effort ?

They rarely teach it - want it forgotten - then maybe teach the other cities and location's and countries - place's of geography.

Even the present population of students - know not much

Then just say - it was only one city - just one of theirs.
Then ALL through out the U.K we sent them home back to it ?
After what they did ?? and who's population's and cities they took over ??

Try Berlin 1945 -APRIL - reduced to absolute pea -gravel -their was almost nothing - not even the street's: One city only - then the other cities in the UK or what was left - from them.

--- On Too the Pacific - Theater --------They only got Pearl

Why we keep our gun's
greyeagle
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01-15-2013 01:57 AM  7 years ago
baby uh1

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From Wiki;
The Gun Quarter is a district of the city of Birmingham, England, which was for many years the centre of world's gun manufacturing industry, specialising in the production of military firearms and sporting guns. It is an industrial area to the north of the city centre, bounded by Steelhouse Lane, Shadwell Street and Loveday Street.
And I found this interesting as well;
The importance of the trade to the town grew rapidly throughout the 18th century, with large numbers of guns produced for the slave trade.
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01-17-2013 03:56 AM  7 years ago
tripergreenfeet

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SA

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This article, posted in the Australian and American media today was written by John Howard who was Prime Minister of Australia from 1996 to 2007.

Howard led a Liberal government, which is the equivilent to the US Republicans.
I Went After Guns. Obama Can, Too.

IT is for Americans and their elected representatives to determine the right response to President Obama’s proposals on gun control. I wouldn’t presume to lecture Americans on the subject. I can, however, describe what I, as prime minister of Australia, did to curb gun violence following a horrific massacre 17 years ago in the hope that it will contribute constructively to the debate in the United States.

I was elected prime minister in early 1996, leading a center-right coalition. Virtually every nonurban electoral district in the country — where gun ownership was higher than elsewhere — sent a member of my coalition to Parliament.

Six weeks later, on April 28, 1996, Martin Bryant, a psychologically disturbed man, used a semiautomatic Armalite rifle and a semiautomatic SKS assault weapon to kill 35 people in a murderous rampage in Port Arthur, Tasmania.

After this wanton slaughter, I knew that I had to use the authority of my office to curb the possession and use of the type of weapons that killed 35 innocent people. I also knew it wouldn’t be easy.

Our challenges were different from America’s. Australia is an even more intensely urban society, with close to 60 percent of our people living in large cities. Our gun lobby isn’t as powerful or well-financed as the National Rifle Association in the United States. Australia, correctly in my view, does not have a Bill of Rights, so our legislatures have more say than America’s over many issues of individual rights, and our courts have less control. Also, we have no constitutional right to bear arms. (After all, the British granted us nationhood peacefully; the United States had to fight for it.)

Because Australia is a federation of states, the national government has no control over gun ownership, sale or use, beyond controlling imports. Given our decentralized system of government, I could reduce the number of dangerous firearms only by persuading the states to enact uniform laws totally prohibiting the ownership, possession and sale of all automatic and semiautomatic weapons while the national government banned the importation of such weapons.

To make this plan work, there had to be a federally financed gun buyback scheme. Ultimately, the cost of the buyback was met by a special one-off tax imposed on all Australians. This required new legislation and was widely accepted across the political spectrum. Almost 700,000 guns were bought back and destroyed — the equivalent of 40 million guns in the United States.

City dwellers supported our plan, but there was strong resistance by some in rural Australia. Many farmers resented being told to surrender weapons they had used safely all of their lives. Penalizing decent, law-abiding citizens because of the criminal behavior of others seemed unfair. Many of them had been lifelong supporters of my coalition and felt bewildered and betrayed by these new laws. I understood their misgivings. Yet I felt there was no alternative.

The fundamental problem was the ready availability of high-powered weapons, which enabled people to convert their murderous impulses into mass killing. Certainly, shortcomings in treating mental illness and the harmful influence of violent video games and movies may have played a role. But nothing trumps easy access to a gun. It is easier to kill 10 people with a gun than with a knife.

Passing gun-control laws was a major challenge for my coalition partner: the rural, conservative National Party. All of its members held seats in nonurban areas. It was also very hard for the state government of Queensland, in Australia’s northeast, where the National Party was dominant, and where the majority of the population was rural.

The leaders of the National Party, as well as the premier of Queensland, courageously supported my government’s decision, despite the electoral pain it caused them. Within a year, a new populist and conservative political party, the One Nation Party, emerged and took many votes from our coalition in subsequent state and federal elections; one of its key policies was the reversal of the gun laws.

For a time, it seemed that certain states might refuse to enact the ban. But I made clear that my government was willing to hold a nationwide referendum to alter the Australian Constitution and give the federal government constitutional power over guns. Such a referendum would have been expensive and divisive, but it would have passed. And all state governments knew this.

In the end, we won the battle to change gun laws because there was majority support across Australia for banning certain weapons. And today, there is a wide consensus that our 1996 reforms not only reduced the gun-related homicide rate, but also the suicide rate. The Australian Institute of Criminology found that gun-related murders and suicides fell sharply after 1996. The American Journal of Law and Economics found that our gun buyback scheme cut firearm suicides by 74 percent. In the 18 years before the 1996 reforms, Australia suffered 13 gun massacres — each with more than four victims — causing a total of 102 deaths. There has not been a single massacre in that category since 1996.

Few Australians would deny that their country is safer today as a consequence of gun control.
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