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HomeScale✈️AircraftScale HeliScale Helicopter Main Discussion Docs  NAZA-H Install and Flight Test
01-13-2013 11:28 PM  7 years ago
Sidneyw

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Huntersville, NC

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No can do.

D-bus is for Futaba S-bus receiver and radio.
JR does not have S-bus.

PPM receiver is also limited to Futaba FASST protocol.
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01-13-2013 11:30 PM  7 years ago
tintmaster

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Wichita, Ks. U.S.A.

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Naza-H
Thats what I thought.
Just call me Farmer Brown. 'Cause I know how to really plant 'em
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01-14-2013 10:21 PM  7 years ago
95nostalgia

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US of A

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Throttle control
New stuff requires a steep learning curve at first. I learned (so far) that the NAZA H has the three modes and as some have mentioned, one of them shouldn't be used right now (ATT Mode) until a fix is done. I think I have realized that the NAZA-H should mostly be considered an FBL controller only. The idea of level control and position hold are niceties but they have requirements that currently need to updated or used sparingly.

I refer to the fact that any mode besides Manual DOES NOT have throttle control. If you switch in and out of them, you will not be able to change throttle. This means you can use ccyclic to move around (essentially fighting the controller's job of keeping level or at a GPS position), but you can not raise or lower or change the throttle. For that, you must return to Manual. This also includes the Throttle Hold function. It does not work in the other modes besides Manual.

In summary, the unit needs work and some safety-related upgrades for us IMHO. They should come (one day). DJI did not advertise that it had auto-take-off or landing or throttle hold in all modes, or throttle control in all modes. Like the man said, "Did they say it would do that?" No they didn't. But I wish they could.

I'd opt for DJI to upgrade the NAZA-H to most of the WK-M abilities (less waypoints)...raise the price a bit...drop production of the WK-H...and lower the starting price of a base model Ace One (with expensive add-on's...ha).
God created only a few perfect heads...the rest he put hair on them.
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01-14-2013 11:28 PM  7 years ago
2tall

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Crystal Lake, Illinois, USA

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Throttle Control
From one of Joel's earlier posts in this thread:
As far as flight performance is concerned, it handles just as well as the Wookong-H. As I indicated elsewhere, the Naza-H does not come with a governor like the Wookong-H does. Since governor functionality is required, you either need an ESC with governor mode, or an external governor for your gas/glo engine.
Sounds like the Naza-H software is expecting throttle control to be handled by a user supplied governor.
"Pay attention...lest the ground rise up and smite thee."
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01-15-2013 01:46 AM  7 years ago
Joel Rosenzweig

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Marlborough, MA - USA

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I refer to the fact that any mode besides Manual DOES NOT have throttle control. If you switch in and out of them, you will not be able to change throttle. This means you can use ccyclic to move around (essentially fighting the controller's job of keeping level or at a GPS position), but you can not raise or lower or change the throttle.
ATTI and ATTI+GPS modes are designed explicitly to self level and hold altitude. The addition of GPS is used to keep the heli in one spot. These modes are not designed for aerobatic flying at all. They are designed for maximum stability. They let you steer the helicopter rather than fly it. That's its job. If you had either throttle or collective pitch control directly while in the ATTI modes, then Naza would be unable to guarantee that it had enough rotor speed to control the heli. Therefore, it would be unable to do what it was designed to do.

This point bears repeating. The intended purpose of the ATTI mode is to self level, and, maintain altitude. No controller, DJI Naza, Ace One, Wookong, or any from any other manufacturer can possibly maintain altitude, or even guarantee that they can level the heli, if the rotor speed is not governed to some minimum value.

Having no throttle or pitch control is not a bad thing in this case. It's exactly what you want so that the flight control system can do its job.

If you need to change altitude, you do this by changing the position of the throttle/collective stick. Put it above neutral to climb. Put it below neutral to sink. Put it at neutral to hold altitude. That's it.

If you want more control over the heli than that, you must enter the manual mode, since that mode really means "the pilot wants to fly the helicopter now. Remove self leveling. Remove altitude hold. Remove position hold'.
Sounds like the Naza-H software is expecting throttle control to be handled by a user supplied governor.
Yes, that is exactly correct. Because Naza was designed for electric helis; the majority of electric helis have ESCs that support governor mode; using a governor to maintain constant head speed is a good idea in general; We can conclude that Naza does not need to include its own governor circuitry and software. It would be redundant to hardware that already exists on the helicopter.

If you have a gasser, glo, or turbine heli, DJI recommends the Wookong-H or Ace One instead.

Joel
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01-15-2013 02:03 AM  7 years ago
2tall

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Crystal Lake, Illinois, USA

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Joel - I use a Naza-M with GPS on a multi-rotor. In both ATT and GPS modes the Naza allows me to fly about using the cyclic gimble and to change altitude using the collective gimble. I'm able to use TX Expo to set cyclic stick response rates. When I allow the cyclic stick to center, the ship stabilizes, and in GPS mode holds its current position. Will the Naza-H perform in a similar way, or must the pilot switch to normal mode to fly, for example, circuits?

DISREGARD JOEL
I found the answer in one of your earlier posts.

Jon
"Pay attention...lest the ground rise up and smite thee."
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02-09-2013 01:21 AM  7 years ago
Sidneyw

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Huntersville, NC

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Joel, received the video this morning from Denny.

https://vimeo.com/59133955
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02-17-2013 01:46 AM  7 years ago
HS10

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Elk River, MN

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NAZA-H Tail gyro drift
Hi Folks

Got my NAZA-H installed and everything looks good on the bench.

I notice a little drift on the tail rotor. My old tail rotor gyro held rock solid. Any ideas about how to eliminate the drift?

Thanks
Logo 14/24 (Agusta 109A-MKII) (MH-6 Little Bird) (OH-58A) Navy - Retired
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02-18-2013 10:42 PM  7 years ago
rccobra

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Malta,New York, USA

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ATTI mode
I have read the threads and I am a little confused. In the ATTI mode is the ATTI function only for self levelling (bailout) or can it be flown in this mode with the unit maintaing altitude along its flight path (but not position of course)
Thanks
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02-18-2013 11:01 PM  7 years ago
Joel Rosenzweig

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Marlborough, MA - USA

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You can fly the heli in ATTI mode. Use your cyclic sticks to provide a velocity vector. Use collective stick for altitude and yaw adjustments. If you leave the collective stick at center it maintains altitude. If you center the cyclic stick, then the heli will just drift in a level attitude. If you switch on GPS hold mode, the GPs will eliminate that drift and hold the heli in one spot. You can fly in GPS mode too. When you let go of the cyclic stick, the heli will quickly stop and stay in one place. In Atti mode, it would continue to translate in whatever direction it was traveling until it settled out.

Joel
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02-19-2013 12:56 AM  7 years ago
rccobra

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Malta,New York, USA

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Alti mode
Thanks Joel
That explains everything I was confused about. The reason I asked was I have a DX-7 and the available switch is only a two position. Obviously manual would be used for one of those and therefore I believe you would have to select either Alti or GPS for the other switch position. The only 3 position switch I have is for the Normal, Idle up 1 and idle up 2 for the throttle.So it seems that switching between alti and GPS in flight is not possible for my existing transmitter.
Thanks again
Randy
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02-21-2013 07:33 PM  7 years ago
coptercptn

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Mesa AZ. USA

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New to both but starting to really understand them..
We just installed the WooKong H in my Turbine (thanks again..Dr.Tim) and after a little learning curve (RTFB!!!!) It appears to be smooth as silk. Haven't done a complete test flight yet due to tracking issues (6 blade head) and weather. But very soon!!
I was reading 95 nostalgia's concern over throttle control. And have these observations... Sorry if I misunderstand what the issue is..
But here is my take on it:
Why would you not have a governed head speed? your ESC should hold whatever HS you dictate, and there really should not be any reason for the the throttle to be manually controlled during flight, Via left stick? (Nor would you want too?). IE flight modes... Once you are spooled up and into "Idle up" there would be no use for throttle control.
This is not an issue for the Turbine as it doesn't want any pitch until 100% anyway. But with electrics it's the same.., No?.
I normally spool up, then switch to flt mode 2 (Idle up) before ever attempting to take off.. Castle ESc's are easy because you can set HS in the governor and set a pitch curve straight line (usually 30/70/100% across the board)
With that being said the collective, is just that... and should work in any mode; Man, Atti, Gps.

Did I miss something? or am I grasping this properly?

BTW Just got my NAZA H w/GPS for the new Cobra.. so I get to compare both DJI systems (wookong/NAZA) and both power systems (Turbine/Electric)

Oh, and just a thought on the "drifting issue" I know this is basic..but sometimes the simplest things are overlooked and taken for granted (ask me how I know??)
But, have you checked your head phasing to insure it is correct and on track? (even with a two bladed head).. Just a thought cuz; "been there done that"
Home of the "Sea Cobra".....
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02-22-2013 01:14 AM  7 years ago
Joel Rosenzweig

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Marlborough, MA - USA

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Why would you not have a governed head speed? your ESC should hold whatever HS you dictate, and there really should not be any reason for the the throttle to be manually controlled during flight, Via left stick? (Nor would you want too?).
That's correct. You'd always want a governed head speed, and the ESC will hold the head speed that you program it to (provided you set it up right). You do not want the 'throttle' stick to actually adjust the throttle on an electric heli, given that would no longer give you a governed head speed.
IE flight modes... Once you are spooled up and into "Idle up" there would be no use for throttle control.
This is not an issue for the Turbine as it doesn't want any pitch until 100% anyway. But with electrics it's the same.., No?.
The electric motor does not mind if you apply a load to it (i.e. pitch) before the system has reached the final rotor speed. But that said, as you indicate, there is still no need for throttle control, at any point in the flight until you want to shut the whole thing down. In essence, there are two speeds we care about, on and off.
With that being said the collective, is just that... and should work in any mode; Man, Atti, Gps.
Did I miss something? or am I grasping this properly?
You got it. Governed head speed works just as you want it to, in Manual, Atti, and GPS Atti modes.

Joel
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02-22-2013 01:19 AM  7 years ago
Joel Rosenzweig

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Marlborough, MA - USA

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Randy,
So it seems that switching between alti and GPS in flight is not possible for my existing transmitter.
Right, without a 3 position switch, or an extra channel that you can 'mix' to the mode output channel to force a third output on that channel, you would be without the ability to choose from 3 modes, and you'd have to pick 2.

If for nothing else, having more channels to control the scale details for your model, and to enable advanced features of the Naza, can be a compelling reason to upgrade the TX. :-)

Joel
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02-22-2013 03:00 PM  7 years ago
coptercptn

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Mesa AZ. USA

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Gotta love the new DX18!!!!! Home of the "Sea Cobra".....
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02-22-2013 10:20 PM  7 years ago
Joel Rosenzweig

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Marlborough, MA - USA

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For sure, it helps to have a radio with a few extra goodies these days so we can control all the accessories we want. I've standardized on 9ch receivers as a baseline for my models, and have an 11ch in some where necessary. Once you consider channels for tail rotor gyro gain, mode selection, X2 and X3 gain inputs, never mind a channel or two for switching on some lights, the requirements start going up, up, up.

Joel
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02-24-2013 03:06 AM  7 years ago
rccobra

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Malta,New York, USA

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TX
Joel
Ok thanks
In my business a 2.5 answer (on a 4.0 scale) means "knows the correct answer when told" thanks
Randy
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02-24-2013 05:15 AM  7 years ago
Sidneyw

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Huntersville, NC

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When using the D-Bus connection option is it necessary to also use Futaba D/S-Bus servos, or does the NAZA control unit have the ability to individually address any brand digital servo?
(I'm considering a 14SGH purchase for use with the Naza-H, but know nothing about S-Bus.)
Using S-bus or D-bus in assistant software; you can use any brand of digital servos.

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02-28-2013 09:17 PM  7 years ago
Sidneyw

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Huntersville, NC

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Hi Jim,
I don't know if Naza-H would work with turbine; but I surely like to find out. If there is anything I can do or help let me know.
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03-07-2013 10:14 PM  7 years ago
2tall

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Crystal Lake, Illinois, USA

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Naza H Pitch Curves?, and Common "Advanced" Settings
I just finished my initial Naza-H setup on an E-Mongoose. The instructions require linear pitch curves with a level swash and zero collective at 50% on the pitch stick. When this process is complete is it okay to set actual flight mode non-linear pitch curves? I would expect to use a curve that would produce a ground effect hover at or slightly above mid stick, with an overall range of say -3 to +10 degrees. One of the setup steps allows us to restrict collective throw, but the results still seem to be linear.

Also, has anyone toyed with the "Common" "Advanced" settings?

Jon
"Pay attention...lest the ground rise up and smite thee."
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HomeScale✈️AircraftScale HeliScale Helicopter Main Discussion Docs  NAZA-H Install and Flight Test
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