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HomeOff Topics News & Politics › talking about hitting the nail on the head
12-06-2012 03:13 PM  5 years agoPost 1
a1saleen

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vancouver washington usa

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12-06-2012 05:34 PM  5 years agoPost 2
irocu88

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norfolk,va

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Utter BS...unions are worthless...

Caliber 90 FT os91 c-spec
Caliber 50, OS50 hyper
Caliber 30 OS37

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12-06-2012 06:06 PM  5 years agoPost 3
InvertedDude

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a1saleen
Really? Have you forgotten where we currently are? Hostess? Anyone?

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12-06-2012 06:41 PM  5 years agoPost 4
Wynn1427

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Ca. 93612

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quoted from the video
companies are keeping a bigger share of the loot....

profit = loot and loot = stealing

This is a growing epidemic the biggest problem right now and still creates a "us vs them" culure. So much for your views/thinking Henry Blodget.

Wynn

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12-07-2012 07:52 AM  5 years agoPost 5
a1saleen

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vancouver washington usa

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Yes Invert look at the bonus's that Hostess is paying out to Upper management ... ALL ON THE BACKS OF THE LITTLE GUY.

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12-07-2012 11:26 AM  5 years agoPost 6
Thomas L Erb

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Alliance ohio

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ALL ON THE BACKS OF THE LITTLE GUY
The backs of who??? Last I checked they are paid employees ! Seems to me that at hostess they must have been paid beyond the abillity for the company to retain the abillity to create a profit or they would still be working!

Yes the company owes the employees a safe work environment and to be paid on time and a timely manner but just because the owners have CREATED an environment and a company to create a profit doesn't mean the employees deserve " their fair share" They were paid already

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12-07-2012 03:24 PM  5 years agoPost 7
ssmith512

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Indianapolis, IN USA

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Factory floor workers get compensated for the job they do. Which most of the time is watching a machine do the actual work. Their compensation is commiserate of their responsibilities.

Steve

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12-07-2012 04:11 PM  5 years agoPost 8
baby uh1

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St. James, Mo.

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Yes, and their fair share is based on what the market will bare. If someone is willing to do the job for less, that job is then worth less. Unions artificially proping up the pay rates is quite damaging to the company's health.
The upper management people are working under the same criteria.
Big talent gets big pay. Just like in sports.

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12-07-2012 07:34 PM  5 years agoPost 9
Thomas L Erb

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Alliance ohio

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A1 how many people do you employ ? when qas the last time you signed a paycheck for someone who worked for you? Are the type that also complains when the Plummer charges you 75$ an hour to fix your toilet ?

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12-07-2012 07:55 PM  5 years agoPost 10
R Hudson

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Denver, CO

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Their compensation is commiserate of their responsibilities.
Is their compensation commiserate or commensurate with their responsibilities?

I think that the decline of Hostess was a combination of bloodthirsty unions AND poor upper management. Although I don't favor unions in general I think both parties share the responsibility for the failure in this case.

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12-07-2012 08:09 PM  5 years agoPost 11
RM3

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Killeen, Texas - USA

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Factory floor workers get compensated for the job they do. Which most of the time is watching a machine do the actual work. Their compensation is commiserate of their responsibilities.
++exactly

and yet the problem lies with these same people, Who vast majority of the time have no more than a HS diploma (maybe a GED) and are about as responsible as a pitbull left to babysit a box full baby chicks.

so if you don't have the skill, knowledge, education AND maturity to handle a high paying job...stop bitchin, and get used to your McJob...if you don't like your McJob, I'm sure someone else who is also not tacobell material will be willing to take it.
Yes, and their fair share is based on what the market will bare. If someone is willing to do the job for less, that job is then worth less.
arguing with these people who want higher pay is pointless...they don't understand what a market is....they think its where they buy thier lotto tickets and use foodstamps....

showing a preference will only get you into trouble, 90% of everything is crap...

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12-07-2012 08:58 PM  5 years agoPost 12
ssmith512

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Indianapolis, IN USA

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Is their compensation commiserate or commensurate with their responsibilities?
Ooops. My bad - completely wrong choice of word. Thank you for the correction.
I think that the decline of Hostess was a combination of bloodthirsty unions AND poor upper management. Although I don't favor unions in general I think both parties share the responsibility for the failure in this case.
I agree 100% with that statement. It takes 2 to tango for sure.

Steve

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12-07-2012 10:46 PM  5 years agoPost 13
Thomas L Erb

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Alliance ohio

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I think that the decline of Hostess was a combination of bloodthirsty unions AND poor upper management. Although I don't favor unions in general I think both parties share the responsibility for the failure in this case.
I think this is an autoimmune response for the fence sitters that are not sure. Thought this may or may not be true in this case you have no fact to base this assumption on other then the higherups are getting bonuses! If they are the owners and high management they run the company! They call the shots! They in a free society can decide to get payed off before liquidating the company assets as well ! Why do the owners of the company need to answer to anybody else! In this case we don't have any facts to bring judgment aginst the owners of the company.

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12-07-2012 10:53 PM  5 years agoPost 14
R Hudson

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Denver, CO

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I think this is an autoimmune response for the fence sitters that are not sure. Thought this may or may not be true in this case you have no fact to base this assumption on other then the higherups are getting bonuses! If they are the owners and high management they run the company! They call the shots! They in a free society can decide to get payed off before liquidating the company assets as well ! Why do the owners of the company need to answer to anybody else! In this case we don't have any facts to bring judgment aginst the owners of the company.
Fair enough to say that. Please post definitive information which shows that the union was 100% to blame in the downfall. If you provide that then the default blame which has already fallen on the union (at least in this forum) will then no longer be the default, but rather, fact.

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12-07-2012 11:35 PM  5 years agoPost 15
R Hudson

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Denver, CO

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Some information I found on Hostess:

2003 Hostess begins closing production plants and other units.
2004 Hostess first enters bankruptcy after a failed restructuring. Bakery, Confectionery, Tobacco workers and Grain Millers (BCTGM) workers agree to wage and benefits concessions, saving the company a reported $110 million—money NOT reinvested in the business.
2009 Hostess emerges from bankruptcy, controlled by a private equity firm and two hedge funds. Company's debt continues to grow, sales decrease.
2011 Floundering, company again demands concessions from BCTGM workers. Workers refuse.
2012 Hostess files for bankruptcy for the second time, demands huge givebacks, stops paying pension obligations. Union files complaints with National Labor Relations Board. BCTGM stand up to Bain-style crony capitalism and strike. Hostess announces liquidation.
Since 2004 Company has closed 21 plants, killed thousand of jobs, remains nonviable.
Since 2002 Hostess has had six CEOs; none turned company around.

To me, this sounds less like the Unions were the only downfall of Hostess.

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12-08-2012 12:15 AM  5 years agoPost 16
Castlebravo

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Hillsboro,Oregon

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Oh now Mr Hudson.......you cannot come in here with Facts Logic and Reason........This simply will not do..........

CB

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12-08-2012 12:49 AM  5 years agoPost 17
baby uh1

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St. James, Mo.

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To me, this sounds less like the Unions were the only downfall of Hostess.
Although they seem to be the only constant through out the process.

And BTW, shouldn't that be Obama-style crony capitalism as he and Solyndra would be the latest and most heinous example of such behavior?

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12-08-2012 01:00 AM  5 years agoPost 18
Thomas L Erb

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Alliance ohio

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So look at your first fact , why do you think this happened? Proably cost of labor to high, cost of materials due to inflation, you can only get so much for a twinkle . But was the real problem that the higherups were paid to much? Humm can it be?

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12-08-2012 05:31 AM  5 years agoPost 19
R Hudson

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Denver, CO

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For the record guys, I said from the start that I am not a big fan of unions. I think they WERE vital to establish fair pay and safe working conditions. However, I believe that for the most part they have outlived their true usefulness.

My reaction to the Hostess situation is neither that of a fencesitter nor is it one by a proponent of labor unions. My reaction is that of a person who does not react to a situation based purely on popular (local) opinion, but rather, one who at least tries to look at things objectively.

If I am wrong in my assessment, which was based on facts that I gathered quite easily, then I will concede that unions are fully responsible for the downfall of Hostess.

I would be 100% fine with being proven incorrect. I have no horse in this race as I am not a Hostess employee, officer, or stockholder and do not work for a union of any type whatsoever.

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