RunRyder RC
WATCH
 3 pages [ <<    <    ( 1 )     2      3     NEXT    >> ] 4731 views POST REPLY
HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › Castle 120 shut down causing crash UPDATE!
12-05-2012 05:47 AM  5 years agoPost 1
honda411

rrKey Veteran

Surprise, AZ USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

So to see what kind of hits I get on here until I download the log from the esc, I am going to post this for now.

Gaui x7
Scorpion 4525-520 motor
Castle 120 HV ESC

Was in the middle of a high speed hurricane when the esc shut down the motor. This has never happened before on anything I have had and have flown this heli even harder before than I did today.

Its getting colder outside everyday. But every time I fly, it seems the motor and esc are slowly getting hotter and hotter. Logs before seemed good and no spikes in anything. Esc wasnt working very hard either.

Recently noticed a piece broken off the bottom of the motor. Its where the base is but right on the side(not on the spinning can part). I figure eh no big deal, its not hurting anything. Reason for it breaking? I dont know.

Well the esc was beeping in a series of 4 beeps after the crash. Figured it was thermal shutdown. But its odd it keeps getting hotter every flight. Last time I temped the motor and esc was average 160-165F.
If anyone has an idea, thanks in advance.

HeliDirect Field Rep, Synergy N7 w/ OS 105, Torq Servos, Cyclone/ Rail blades

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
12-05-2012 06:04 AM  5 years agoPost 2
mr dan

rrVeteran

Stockton Calif

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

What version of firmware are you currently using? I read on another post a member had the same issue after updating to the latest beta version.

https://rc.runryder.com/t719500p1/

"R.I.P Roman" Citizen 0094 in the Nation

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
12-05-2012 06:35 AM  5 years agoPost 3
honda411

rrKey Veteran

Surprise, AZ USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I believe its the latest version. I got it used and re checked all settings. I played with timing and kHz rates and all. To make it best power but keep at a good temp also. Haven't touched anything since. Sorry this isn't much info and much help. Just always busy to get to the computer.

HeliDirect Field Rep, Synergy N7 w/ OS 105, Torq Servos, Cyclone/ Rail blades

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
12-05-2012 06:45 AM  5 years agoPost 4
westwindpilot

rrVeteran

Glendale, AZ

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I fly with honda once in a while and I have witnessed what he is talking about. when he first got this heli the temps were low (120ish) on the esc. And about the same on the motor. He flew it hard. And it seemed every weekend we went out the temp would raise about 5 to 10 degrees each weekend. I did not see this result (shutdown) but was witness to temps rising for no reason whatsoever.

Sorry Chris, hopefully nothing too bad was damaged.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
12-05-2012 06:47 AM  5 years agoPost 5
mr dan

rrVeteran

Stockton Calif

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I believe its the latest version. I got it used and re checked all settings. I played with timing and kHz rates and all. To make it best power but keep at a good temp also. Haven't touched anything since. Sorry this isn't much info and much help. Just always busy to get to the computer.
If you have the castle program on your computer, connect it to your ESC using your CC quick link, and check which version your ESC is set to.

"R.I.P Roman" Citizen 0094 in the Nation

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
12-05-2012 07:09 AM  5 years agoPost 6
Heliflyer69

rrVeteran

Northen Cali

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

You didnt say if it is Ice2 or not.
Recently noticed a piece broken off the bottom of the motor. Its where the base is but right on the side(not on the spinning can part). I figure eh no big deal, its not hurting anything. Reason for it breaking? I dont know.
A motor with issues can easily cause a esc to overheat/overamp/shutdown.

Roy

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
12-05-2012 07:12 AM  5 years agoPost 7
westwindpilot

rrVeteran

Glendale, AZ

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Dont quote me on this buy I believe its not the ice 2. Its the original.
A motor with issues can easily cause a esc to overheat/overamp/shutdown.
But it started overheating way before the piece broke off.

Maybe it would still cause it though. Im not sure.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
12-05-2012 10:46 AM  5 years agoPost 8
wrongler

rrProfessor

Brewerton, New York

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I think you just spiked the amps and it shut down, What size blades?

Bill Whittaker

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
12-05-2012 01:22 PM  5 years agoPost 9
dkshema

rrMaster

Cedar Rapids, IA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Motor bearings on their way out? Scorpion insists that you oil the bearings about every 10 flights or you risk damage to the bearings.
was witness to temps rising for no reason whatsoever.
Oh there IS a reason. The motor is having to work harder to do its job.

If things are getting progressively worse, and the ESC is going into thermal shutdown, it's time to figure out what in the heli is falling apart. The ESC is shutting down to protect itself. You need to figure out what is going wrong instead of blaming the ESC and scratching your head.

Hook up the Phoenix Link and at least reset the motor timing parameters. What you think is making "best power" may also be a bad setting with regard to the motor.

Then make sure you have the following set:

1. That you are operating in either the Heli Fixed endpoint mode, or one of the governor modes. And make sure you have properly calibrated the TX and ESC to each other.

2. Make sure you have the Current Limit feature set to either INSENSITIVE or DISABLED. This is a MUST for heli operation, to prevent unwanted shutdowns of the motor.

Bearing somewhere in the heli going bad?

Chunks missing from the motor and you don't seem too interested in finding out why and assuming it doesn't affect your system?

You're overlooking stuff and wanting to blame the ESC. Won't be long before we read of the fiery crash that happened for "no reason".

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
12-05-2012 03:48 PM  5 years agoPost 10
Thatlumox

rrApprentice

NY

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Recently noticed a piece broken off the bottom of the motor. Its where the base is but right on the side(not on the spinning can part). I figure eh no big deal, its not hurting anything.
...Wait, didn't NASA say that about the piece of foam that fell off and damaged the heat shield tiles on the Columbia? You remember how that ended?

"I'm a dirt torpedo!"

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
12-05-2012 05:06 PM  5 years agoPost 11
icanfly

rrElite Veteran

ontario

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Chunks missing from the motor
an obvious sign it's motor related.

Brushless motors hate drag, and a bad bearing will not always be noticable but under hard operation will heat up and become increasingly difficult to turn.

It's possible your bearing HAS SEIZED and is rotating in the motor base (cracked?).

A dry bearing is an invitation to heat and seizure.

Is your tolerance between the pinion and gear set properly or tight?

That sounded like a dangerous place for a heli to quit if it was the returning side of the hurricane coming toward you and or someone nearby.

Little heli mechanical faults can become big ones in a hurry.

2cs.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
12-05-2012 06:28 PM  5 years agoPost 12
Solmanbandit

rrElite Veteran

Tucson , AZ

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Motor bearings on their way out? Scorpion insists that you oil the bearings about every 10 flights or you risk damage to the bearings.
That is a good point and if you found a piece broken off the motor, disassembling the motor to check for further damage should have been accomplished.

Trex 700E / Trex 500 ESP - Ikon/ HD 500 - Ikon 2/ Goblin 500 Ikon 2

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
12-05-2012 07:08 PM  5 years agoPost 13
ebonicrobot

rrApprentice

East Bay, CA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I'm pretty sure its the bearings too. Never had one seize during flight but I did notice the stock scorpion bearings becoming pretty notchy. I replaced mine with Boca bearings and never had a problem sense. If u don't want to go that route just replace with a stock pair and buy the scorpion motor oil or an oil of your choosing.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
12-05-2012 08:08 PM  5 years agoPost 14
Solmanbandit

rrElite Veteran

Tucson , AZ

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

When I first started out, I had a blade 400 and one of the bearings in the motor distinegrated in flight. It smoked like a nitro and actually brought it back safely. I would replace with Boca ceramic bearings.

Trex 700E / Trex 500 ESP - Ikon/ HD 500 - Ikon 2/ Goblin 500 Ikon 2

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
12-05-2012 10:35 PM  5 years agoPost 15
McCrasher

rrNovice

Ventura, Ca, USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Per the Castle Phoenix manual, 4 beeps means that the controller encountered a "motor anomaly" and shut down. Overtemp is six beeps.

Mike

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
12-06-2012 02:17 AM  5 years agoPost 16
honda411

rrKey Veteran

Surprise, AZ USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

okay here is all of the information on the setup and same with photos.

Throttle:

Gov Mode: Set RPM
Initial spool up rate: Medium 5
Gov Gain: Custom 18
HS change Rate: Custom 12

Cut Offs:

Cutoff Voltage: Auto lipo/3.2v per cell
Voltage Cutoff type: Soft
Current Limiting: Insensitive 180A
Soft cut off

Motor:

Motor Start Power: Medium 59
Motor Timing: Normal 5
PWM Rate: 16khz

Software: V 4.02 (Beta)

Here are ESC graph info:

Current: 105.3 MAX
Ripple: 3.62 MAX
Amp Hours: 4.52 MAX
Watts: 4849 MAX
Temp: 203 MAX
RPM: 2364 MAX
Power Out 96.5%

The piece broken off is not inside the motor. It was barely hanging on when I PULLED it off myself. Basically hanging there.

NOTE: Green is the CURRENT/ Purple is the RIPPLE

HeliDirect Field Rep, Synergy N7 w/ OS 105, Torq Servos, Cyclone/ Rail blades

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
12-06-2012 05:02 AM  5 years agoPost 17
504Rone

rrKey Veteran

New Orleans, LA.

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I got 4 beeps once when one of my motor wires came apart.

NO FLYBARS

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
12-06-2012 05:31 AM  5 years agoPost 18
dkshema

rrMaster

Cedar Rapids, IA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Bits of motor just don't decide to fall off. It looks as if your motor took a hit, either from something external, or something internal. It's possible your motor windings are damaged.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
12-06-2012 09:26 AM  5 years agoPost 19
icanfly

rrElite Veteran

ontario

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

A control would be to put another motor in first and test it, regardless of the missing piece. Take the Scorpion motor OFF and inspect it.

You can test the resistance of the motor windings with a multi meter.

Good luck

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
12-06-2012 01:38 PM  5 years agoPost 20
Auddiss

rrNovice

CT

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I would disable current limiting for sure, I hit 178 amps with the same motor the other day, I have a 160hv though.

Although it does sound like you need to look into something Being wrong with the motor

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
WATCH
 3 pages [ <<    <    ( 1 )     2      3     NEXT    >> ] 4731 views POST REPLY
HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › Castle 120 shut down causing crash UPDATE!
 Print TOPIC  Make Suggestion 

 10  Topic Subscribe

Tuesday, November 13 - 10:05 pm - Copyright © 2000-2018 RunRyder   EMAILEnable Cookies

The RC discussion world needs to consolidate. RR is now one choice for that. Its software is cutting edge. It hosts on-topic advertising. Help RR increase traffic buy making suggestions, posting in RR's new areas (sites) and by spreading the word.

The RunRyder Difference

• Category system to allow Rep/Vendor postings.
• Classifieds with sold (hidden) category.
• Classifieds with separate view new.
• Answer PMs offsite via email reply.
• Member gallery photos with advanced scripting.
• Gallery photo viewer integrated into postings.
• Highly refined search with advanced back end.
• Hosts its own high end fast response servers.
• Hosts thousands of HD event coverage videos.
• Rewrote entire code base with latest technology.
• No off-topic (annoying) click bait advertising.
Login Here
 New Subscriptions 
 Buddies Online