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12-03-2012 05:14 PM  6 years agoPost 181
mbarhsi

rrApprentice

Flagstaff, AZ

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Eh, am sure you will hear tons about it before that but this is typical Horizon fan fare. Horizon could probably bring it to market in a month but the build up and beta flyer videos and the long await and dangling in your face stuff and basically all that Horizon will be doing till then is all what they know most of their customers are even looking for.
Since they absolutely DO do this "anticipation" game, what really pisses me off is them ALWAYS being out of key parts for a long time after a new product release. Seriously...what's the deal? Why not have the parts train already in place? They would have had plenty of time and selling the parts that many people need would just be even more money in their pocket. One good thing, however, is it "forces" others to come up with aftermarket solutions.

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12-03-2012 05:47 PM  6 years agoPost 182
WBFAir

rrApprentice

Stamford, CT - USA

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Since they absolutely DO do this "anticipation" game, what really pisses me off is them ALWAYS being out of key parts for a long time after a new product release. Seriously...what's the deal? Why not have the parts train already in place?
Oh that's easy and just even more Psyc sales 101

Basically this serves two purposes.

As a lot of the sales are all up front from all the salivators, those guys get them and are going to be the ones who tell of how it is to the next wave of ones who might wait for the first month to get reports to get one, so this actually means for the ones who all pre-ordered and then had gotten a helo, there is still a sold helo, but not a flying one.

Can only go to the post boards with all the comments of all the defects or as to how short lived it will fly if it is actually flying.

But ground one all due to one silly little part that can't be bought for weeks, and what you have is a person who as I spoke of before, is reluctant to say anything bad about it as they went so nuts to get one and spent so much, so don't want to look stupid for bashing it, and two, can't comment any way of all its short coming to the next unsuspecting wave of purchasers as how can they if it isn't flying.

Then the second reason is this helps them to sell all the high cost parts even more as if the helo you just spend all the want and money on isn't flying, having that go on for weeks even makes you want it to even more, so will be perfectly willing to pay even more for the parts and probably will buy many extras.

I know for the first month or two of the release of the 130, I went into several LHS once the big shipment of parts started coming in, and was told for about 3 weeks as each one did over these weeks how almost the very same day the shipment came in, a person showed up and bought them out of 80% of them all in one shot.

HH make just as much in the parts if not more and knows just how to fleece the customer just as much to get the most out of that end of the sales too. One, build the helo badly an cheap so the parts fail, then do games like this with as well charge a lot for the stuff, use the price fixing thing so all the parts stay pricy and keeps the LHS owner happy by making easy money selling boxes and bags and as such....selling only HH stuff. To which thus keeping the completion for better out of the LHS thus giving the customer few other choices other then just only their stuff to buy.

Horizon is a very multi-legged money taking table with all of them relate to the other and they do nothing by accident and are very aware of what it is they are doing.

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12-03-2012 06:01 PM  6 years agoPost 183
mbarhsi

rrApprentice

Flagstaff, AZ

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Then the second reason is this helps them to sell all the high cost parts even more as if the helo you just spend all the want and money on isn't flying, having that go on for weeks even makes you want it to even more, so will be perfectly willing to pay even more for the parts and probably will buy many extras.
True dat... They were out of 130X servos (STILL out on tail servos) forever and I bought two even though I didn't need them just to have spares.

The sad thing is there is no suitable aftermarket alternative for 130X cyclic servos right now. HH has that linear servo market cornered because of their frame design which very well may have been done on purpose.

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12-03-2012 06:12 PM  6 years agoPost 184
WBFAir

rrApprentice

Stamford, CT - USA

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Yeah this is another thing I love of how many miss this.

Basically the stuff they have made in china could be a non-interrupting flow.

But by various reasons, there is always the hunt or adherence for the cheapest way it can ever be done from many various angles.

So when you see some part that has been out of stock for weeks or pushed back time after time, its not that it can't be made, its just that it can't be made to the maxim profits they want.

Which I sorta can't fault them on that but what I love is how all these people love HH so much as they say they are such caring people for giving me this free thing or that free thing.

Simply is not the case, the free stuff is even more of a sales gimmick to keep that delusion up as if they really cared so much, why not take it on the chin and make a little less that month and bring in one special order of tail servos as so many people have grounded helos with out it.

But won't as they only will get it when it's to their max profits to do so, and if you have to wait and have your helo grounded as such, too bad.

So where is all the caring in that.

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12-03-2012 06:21 PM  6 years agoPost 185
mbarhsi

rrApprentice

Flagstaff, AZ

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I give the 130X a pass on the "parts" thing. To me, it really is such a special little heli. It's hands-down the BEST flying heli in its class. I had issues with mine, but I got them worked out quickly and I have, at last count (I keep a log), 250+ great flights on it with the original servos. I'm willing to spend the blood money Horizon charges for the parts I really can't get anywhere else. And, those cyclic servos weren't available anywhere else, either. $16/servo isn't going to break the bank, anyway.

I bash the crap out of Horizon/Blade for their questionable business practices, but they do put out a gem every once in a while. My 4503D and 130X have been excellent. I even like that rascally mSRX that everyone bitches about being so hard to fly. Mine flies great for a FP heli and even does left turns just fine. The naysayers just can't setup and/or fly theirs correctly.

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12-03-2012 06:34 PM  6 years agoPost 186
WBFAir

rrApprentice

Stamford, CT - USA

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For me and for many others who regularly post on HF, the 130 has been horrible, won't go into all the things as the list is too long but will just say that it flies pretty nice "when" it flies but has cost me a huge amount of time and money to keep it doing so, and even at this point, continues to need that.

Basically the only helo of theirs I ever liked was the 120SR as that I really see as one of Horizons biggest mistakes as it really doesn't need much and can really take a pounding.

But will say it and that is also what kinda fooled me to getting a 130 after all the bad experiences of the Cx2 as I was kinda sold that well the Cx2 was made years ago but the 130 is new and is going to be much like 120 but just a CP helo.

Now yeah I know the dif's enough that it is a CP helo that I wasn't thinking that it would be exactly, btw have been flying CP's for years and have a Rex 700, 450 Pro and 500EFL Pro so its not like I don't know things

But never thought it would be this bad and for sure think in the end will be costing me just as much like the Cx2 in hope-up parts if I even hope to have it right.

In the end I don't consider it a OK thing when I have to spend almost twice as much as what I pay for a product and even worse a ton of my time in doing all the things to it to make it right.

One thing to do it by choice as I just want more out of it, but to have to do it as I have no other choice and especially if it was billed as that is wasn't going to need that, is totally different .

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12-03-2012 06:41 PM  6 years agoPost 187
mbarhsi

rrApprentice

Flagstaff, AZ

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I'm actually surprised that the tail on my 130X has been very reliable. This heli is Blade's first ever shaft/gear tail drive system, although it's not exactly new and earth shattering technology... Admittedly, I do have the metal A gear and a Rakon metal tail pitch slider, but the rest of the stock TT parts and tail parts have been very reliable.

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12-03-2012 06:45 PM  6 years agoPost 188
WBFAir

rrApprentice

Stamford, CT - USA

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Wont say "every" part or design on it is bad, but there are tones of issues with it and even of the good parts, have had to replace them many times from what were not bad crashes all, and they aren't cheap.

Any helo is only as good as its weakest link as when that one goes, the whole helo is grounded.

Basic good example is my Cx2, as mentioned, I chased bad issues with it with hope-up parts to no end. Fixed many but even today it has a bad tail drift problem as the gyro is of a bad early design.

Is so annoying I just hate to even try flying it as, as soon as I do and the tail drifts and not only is the fact of that a problem and will eventually lead to a crash and more parts money, but I just think about how much I dumped into it and it still is a pain to fly and just get disgusted.

And also as such, am just not going to spend the money to try the last Gyro'ed 3-in-1 they came out with as there really is no way to even know 100% if that will fix it. Thing is like $60.00 last time I checked I think, plus I have to buy a Rec which is like $25 $30?

So I just shelf it and worst of all, probably couldn't even get $30.00 for it if I even tried to sell it, which I wouldn't anyway as I wouldn't feel right doing that to someone.

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12-03-2012 07:01 PM  6 years agoPost 189
mbarhsi

rrApprentice

Flagstaff, AZ

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Was the CX2 your first heli? I'd say the main thing wrong with that one (or any co-ax) is that you can't really DO anything with it. It quickly becomes a boring, expensive toy. And, why would you have to buy a new RX? I thought it was just a standard Spektrum park flyer type RX.
So I just shelf it and worst of all, probably couldn't even get $30.00 for it if I even tried to sell it, which I wouldn't anyway as I wouldn't feel right doing that to someone.
Sell it with a disclaimer up front that it's a "parts bird".

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12-03-2012 07:05 PM  6 years agoPost 190
WBFAir

rrApprentice

Stamford, CT - USA

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Well it was my first after the mall helo I got, going back 7 years here.

To answer your question, the very first ones were actually controlled by a 4-in-1, was a Rec, Gyro, ESC and BEC I think it is?

What ever it is, had the Rec in it.

Later when they found that sucked came out with the 3-in-1s that had the sep rec.

Actually they found those weren't all that swift either as they cheeped out on those as they were rate mode gyros believe it or not.

Nice over $200.00 and you get a rate mode gyro to control two separate motors. Good thinking there, but guess it made the profits.

Eventually they made the last ones in the Cx'3's with a heading hold unit. This one at least as well had a separate gain lead that if you had a Tx that had the capability, IE not the one that came with it but one you would have to spend more money to get, you could control the gain with it from the Tx.

Various reports if that thing was all that great either but of all of them, most say it held the best.

But like I said, would be about $100.00 for all the parts and wiring up the gain channel is a little funny so am not willing to take the risk mostly on just the cost alone, but as well only to find out it just is only a little better and not fixed.

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12-03-2012 07:20 PM  6 years agoPost 191
mbarhsi

rrApprentice

Flagstaff, AZ

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I'd just part it out or sell it as a "problem bird". No sense keeping it if you're not going to try to fix it or ever really fly it again.

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12-03-2012 07:28 PM  6 years agoPost 192
WBFAir

rrApprentice

Stamford, CT - USA

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And get what for it after all that work, plus it takes a lot of time to play that game of parting out a bird, and all the various people who want to haggle for 2 or 3 dollars one way or the other. Making ads and all the e-mails and PMs back and forth.

Then you got to do the research of all the shipping for all of them, an do the boxing and getting it out, and collecting of the money and deposit it and so on an so on.

An at the most you will only get about 75% of it sold, so all that to get for it all, $60.00?

An then the rest of it is just garbage you have to throw away as what else are you going to do with it?

And then after all that, thats all I have to show for all the time and money it cost me?

Just all isn't worth it.

My only hope for this thing is maybe I might come across the parts I spoke of for free somehow and then if it flies good enough from that, perhaps give it to some little kid or really old guy who really might enjoy it for not a thing to get into or be in the hobby but just for what little it can do.

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12-03-2012 07:44 PM  6 years agoPost 193
mbarhsi

rrApprentice

Flagstaff, AZ

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Well, it's your heli... You seemed pretty pissed about it, so I thought getting rid of it might get you a little bit of money back out of it. At least get it off your shelf space so you don't have to look at it and stay pissed.

However, between posts here, I've been running out front and burning through 130X batteries. Wonderful weather right now with no wind, which is rare in the mountains!

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12-03-2012 08:00 PM  6 years agoPost 194
mbarhsi

rrApprentice

Flagstaff, AZ

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Just watched the new Blade "commercial" again... Wonder where Mikel Graham (token BG? ) is on the development/design team with this "Blade Pro Series". According to Horizon, he designed the 300 and 450X, yet he wasn't in the video.

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12-03-2012 08:26 PM  6 years agoPost 195
BJames111

rrElite Veteran

San Diego, California

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I was out of town when they put this together, and Mikel moved on to bigger and better (not heli) things.

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12-03-2012 08:31 PM  6 years agoPost 196
mbarhsi

rrApprentice

Flagstaff, AZ

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I was out of town when they put this together, and Mikel moved on to bigger and better (not heli) things.
Really? The ONE guy with an Aero degree from MIT and he's off the heli design team?

Define "bigger and better" within the Horizon, ahem, "spektrum"...

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12-04-2012 01:39 AM  6 years agoPost 197
mbarhsi

rrApprentice

Flagstaff, AZ

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

According to Tmoore here, they spilled the beans on their Facebook page.

https://www.facebook.com/BladeHelis?ref=ts&fref=ts

Thanks for the point, Tmoore.

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12-04-2012 01:40 AM  6 years agoPost 198
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Yep, the answer is there somewhere. Like someone pointed out it would appear to be a kit as well.

Delayed Response Operator Not Engaged
AMA SECTION 336 = Good
Drones = EVIL

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12-04-2012 01:44 AM  6 years agoPost 199
mbarhsi

rrApprentice

Flagstaff, AZ

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Yet, via PM, you claim NO ties to Horizon/Blade, but won't say exactly what it is or point out exactly where they say it in all the chatter. Why "protect" them if you *say* it's already out on a public page? Because you don't know, either...

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12-04-2012 01:49 AM  6 years agoPost 200
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Look at the heli in the video. As someone already pointed out the battery is under the canopy which suggests a 6s system. What size machines run on 6s nowadays?

Delayed Response Operator Not Engaged
AMA SECTION 336 = Good
Drones = EVIL

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