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Home🌌Off TopicsOff Topics News & Politics › The founding fathers knew it, to bad it's been forgotten...
11-11-2012 06:34 PM  7 years ago
fla heli boy

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I am more talking about the intermarrying of heritage more than skin color.... FYI.
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11-11-2012 06:47 PM  7 years ago
Thomas L Erb

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Color me shocked. That pretty much ends this discussion then. You are arguing about something you know nothing about and which you do not believe in the first place.
Typical lib response ,I'm taking my ball and going home . I give you a chance to explain what you believe and you bail! Really come on grow some balls and splain what y'all meann!
You cannot legalize morality. It's internal not external. You either have it or you don't.
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11-11-2012 07:00 PM  7 years ago
R Hudson

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FHB,

You said this:

"Your problem is you want to see our DNA drag everybody else up. That just doesn't happen. I think they drag us down."

That, to me, would indicate a feeling of superiority, hence racism (in its true form).
Now, I'm not trying to go on the attack here and maybe you misspoke but that statement does not bode well for you if you are trying to say you are not a racist.

Let's face it folks, we ALL can be a bit racist at times, but the definition of racist has expanded exponentially in recent years.

FHB, if that is how you feel I don't fault you for it. It is your opinion and you're damn well entitiled to it. I don't think there should be any policies regarding that position though.

Like or not, melting pot it is going to be.
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11-11-2012 07:12 PM  7 years ago
fla heli boy

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yeah, maybe misspoke a little. I guess what I really mean is more in the line of societal. Nothing makes me more bewildered than .... ah never mind....
I know you're not attacking, not taking it personally, but anything I say at this point will just convince the liberals here that I have me a lynchin' tree in my back yard....


Gotta go get a fresh beer....and hump ma cuzzin'...
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11-11-2012 07:53 PM  7 years ago
Xterra

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Thomas
I do not agree with Phaedrus political views at all. However, it is obvious that he is an educated individual that researches the issues before posting his comments. It is also clear to me that you do not understand evolution. I am not saying tha Phaedrus is an expert on the field but he is familiar with the basis controlling evolution.
My field deals primarily with viral and human molecular evolution -I actually have a number of scientific papers published on the field.
Now regarding FHB comment and Dobermans. Diseases among pure breeds is a very well known problem in dogs. There is a huge list of scientific communications about degenerative diseases in dogs driven by inbreeding. Thus, enriching the gene pool is in general a positive event.
So, I believe you should research the issue before commenting. Otherwise you will start sounding like Greyeagle.

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11-11-2012 08:08 PM  7 years ago
fla heli boy

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I understand inbreeding very well...
Just kidding. We used to raise and breed dobies.
But inbreeding as it relates to something like dogs, is drastically different than what we're talking about here.....as I'm sure you know. I get what you're driving at though.
But in the end, as a society, aren't we all about celebrating our individuality and differences??? Well, when we all mix, one day on the distant future, we'll all be the same. And as you would know, natural process means we'd probably lose some of the best and some of the worst and everybody would just end up "average" and all look the same. Doesn't sound too appealing to me.
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11-11-2012 08:32 PM  7 years ago
Xterra

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FHB, I also beloeve you do not understand evolution very well. Selection in humans works, somehow, in different ways. For instance, astigmatism is not being selected against because there are a number of medical procedures that correct the problem. Therefore, the traits are still present in the population and are fixed. Considering the population size, the genetic drift occurs in a peculiar way. Phaedrus tried to use bottleneck to explain why alleles (homozygous or heterozygous, recessive or dominant for the same matter) can result in degenerative disease. However his definition is not correct, and the example is also not explained correctly.
I actually do not see a problem with interracial couples. We have been evolving, and will be evolving till the huma specie dissapear from the face of the earth. Therefore, celebreting our heritage is something cultural and not pertinent to evolution. That, my dear friend, is up to each and every one of us. I just wanted to clarify your comment regarding Japanese DNA. That comment alone showed that you do not understand evolution and genetic makeup very well. Therefore, your confusion with culture and human behavior.

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11-11-2012 08:40 PM  7 years ago
fla heli boy

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I get it, really I do. To me, I just think it's a shame if somewhere long down the road, we're all basically the same. Imagine not being able to have a choice between a redhead, blond or a brunette???
We're all destined to be mutts at some point.
There's really no confusion on your above point. I know my problems are cultural in nature. But it'll get you jumped for pointing that out. PC run amok.
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11-11-2012 09:04 PM  7 years ago
Phaedrus

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Phaedrus tried to use bottleneck to explain why alleles (homologous) can result in degenerative disease. However his definition is not correct, and the example is also not explained correctly.
Allow me to clarify then. I used the example of the Cheetah since their genetic fingerprint has been converging rather than diverging. As a result, when exposed to a given disease, it is more likely to cause a greater number of deaths due to the lack of diversity. By expanding the diversity it allows a greater chance of survival when exposed to an external stress like a disease.

I was not speaking of inbred degenerative diseases of conditions.
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11-11-2012 09:17 PM  7 years ago
Xterra

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Phaedrus
I think the topic is drifting rapidly. Convergence does not necesarily reduce fitness. There a number of examples where convergnece actually provides an evolutive advantage, and therefore increases fitness.
The problem with Pure breeds (dogs) or populations with limited allele diversity , I am actually not familiar with cheetahs at all, is that alleles associated with diseases are more likely to be fixed in the population. Additionally, the HLA repertoire is limited and the immune response to certain pathogens can be compromised, affecting not only the innate but also the adaptive immune response.
Thus, convergence is not the same as reduced allele repertoire regardless of whether they are recessive or dominant.
PS. This os the only paper I could find suggesting DNA comvergence among cheetahs in comparison to other cats. The paper does not mention the phenomenom you have described in your previous post:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?...ent%20evolution
Got a link to the corresponding peer reviewed paper backing up your statements?

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11-11-2012 10:11 PM  7 years ago
GREYEAGLE

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Agree With the deafult of Imbreeding problem's -Some carry a viscious genome
The very reason they never invented Steel, Flight, Built Great Ships, or Militarize their Nation's with out assistance.

Could not learn to explore or locate oil. Conduct space flight or build the craft to get their. Provide massive agriculture and health care for their population. Never became civilized with moral value of love and respect of life behavior.

Primary diet is the same as it has been for centuries. Very limited Cattle or Hog, limited variety of grain crop, eat unusal vegetable's like Mana. In some place's bug's or dried bait fish, rodent's or male goat is still highly popular.

Spent centuries upon centuries pushing rock around and returning them into sands to become a war arena for pleasure and entertainment. Trace's can still be found deep in many levels of the soil. It has permeated the culture for eon's.

Shoe's and actual dress and pant's with personal hygiene are just now becoming cultural if taught. Most of the major ground born population still view a water flush toilet as foot wash station, and have yet to achieve a higher layer of consciousness to use it.

Thing's like the steam engine or internal combustion, the electric motor, rail line, water desalination & purification were never thoughts of Innovation or Creativity but had to be obtained. Developing structural steel & actual manufacturing has yet to be developed on their own of any true scale. Must be imported or taught or provided do to lack of resources.

Can only imagine if education between the sex gender's or banking was developed - or what if they can figure Nuclear Weapon technology and develop it as a National Power source.

On these term's I completely agree whole and confirm with acknowledgment of Xterra's Premise. he is absolutely correct.

They should not be allowed to Inbred - It promotes viciousness and a scattered mind of HAtE. The Species should kept protected and safe until they are ready to come into the Light correctly and perform these activities on their own with out any form of assistance. That is why they stay protected and hidden in the dark under the blanket's to keep warm.
greyeagle
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11-11-2012 11:02 PM  7 years ago
koppter

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nnn
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11-11-2012 11:11 PM  7 years ago
Thomas L Erb

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Gray LMAO,!! They are to full of themselfs to see that they are to smart for their own good. Xterra you seem quite educated on the subject. Why is my simple question so hard to explain? Sometime you need to talk in English for the masses not just for your selflessness.

How's this ex if evolution made us so different yet the Same why would it totally change course in the future and go the opposite way? How ae you figuring in environmental issues of the future without real data to back up your theory ! Opps ther that word goes again! Sorry
You cannot legalize morality. It's internal not external. You either have it or you don't.
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11-11-2012 11:54 PM  7 years ago
Xterra

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Dear Thomas
I am really sorry my command of the English language is not good enough for you.
All Humans belong to the same specie "Homo sapiens sapiens". Most of the differences among humans are coded by small differences along the genome. Some differences are "epigenetics", and therefore cannot be identified by the particular DNA sequence in the corresponding genes. As diploid organism, we adquire one set of chromosomes from the mother and one from the father. This process is what actually contributes to the variability observed among humans.
Human variability is race dependent. For instance, Africans tend to have higher rates of non CC IL28B genotypes, and therefore, they tend to respond poorly to certain antiviral therapies. Many other loci have been associated with chronic diseases such as asthma, diabetes, etc, or infectious diseases such as HCV.
Dogs are a very unique example of evolution. We have artificially selected those traits that are important to us (size, speed, agresivness, etc). As result, dogs are the most diverse mammals on earth. We have witnessed the evolution of man's best friend right in front of us. At the end of the day, they are the same specie, and therefore, share the same common ancestor.
There is a humangous amount of information on the issue. Several groups in the US and Europe have conducted very elegant studies and published their observations in highly recognized scientific journals.

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11-11-2012 11:55 PM  7 years ago
Phaedrus

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Xterra, this may help:
On the other hand, a population with high levels of genetic variation is much more likely to include at least a few individuals carrying the gene versions that provide protection from the pathogen — and, hence, to evolve in response to the new situation instead of going extinct. A population with low genetic variation is something of a sitting duck — vulnerable to all sorts of environmental changes that a more variable population could persist through.

And unfortunately, those are exactly the circumstances faced by cheetahs today. As a species, cheetahs have famously low levels of genetic variation. This can probably be attributed to a population bottleneck they experienced around 10,000 years ago, barely avoiding extinction at the end of the last ice age. However, the situation has worsened in modern times. Habitat encroachment and poaching have further reduce cheetah numbers, consequently snuffing out even more genetic variation and leaving cheetahs even more vulnerable to extinction.

http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evoli.../070701_cheetah
http://www.science20.com/seeing_gre...k_problem-80924

http://www.pnas.org/content/90/8/3172.full.pdf

http://www.cheetah.org/?nd=genetic_diversity
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11-12-2012 12:05 AM  7 years ago
Xterra

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So we are talking about the same thing. You got me confused with the term convergence.
I guess we should go back to the original topic. We have effectively high jacked this thread.

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11-12-2012 12:09 AM  7 years ago
Thomas L Erb

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Xterra it is not me you need impress with your command of the English,language ,I do know how to read. I only ask for a simple answer to your comment and my question. please show your firsthand research if you can to surmise your conclusions.You cannot legalize morality. It's internal not external. You either have it or you don't.
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11-12-2012 12:16 AM  7 years ago
Xterra

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Thomas,
This a good read:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17696778

Happy reading!

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11-12-2012 12:34 AM  7 years ago
Phaedrus

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So we are talking about the same thing. You got me confused with the term convergence.
I guess we should go back to the original topic. We have effectively high jacked this thread.
As noted by koppter I was using it in a casual/lat sense in order make the point to people who are not as well read as you in the field of genetics.

Agreed about veering off topic.
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11-12-2012 01:23 AM  7 years ago
GREYEAGLE

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I BeSeech Thee- I believe I can Un -Pack - The Spirit Filled Value of The Other ---

Just for The Saint's and Patriot's of this Great Nation Since -

Those that hang Their Harp's Among The Willow Tree's which at the drop of a pin, will Stand In The SUN

To day Is Veteran's Day and Tomorrow is the Official National Holiday to SAY : Thank You !

Knowing : The Cultural Difference's: That !!!
EVERYONE IS ENTITLED TO THEIR OWN RIDICULOUS OPINION'S
Our Culture:
That Built OUr Nation : Just did not want to become a causality -
WE FOLLOWED and Obeyed The Written Conditionals and UN-Conditional's they did NOT ----

Examine their proof of the Cultural Proposition -
It's a DEAD Give Away what happens.

That is why we have, and are what we are, they are not , but sure would like too
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