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HomeRC & Power✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterEngines Plugs Mufflers Fuel › YS120 hole in piston
11-07-2012 05:38 AM  7 years ago
honda411

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Surprise, AZ USA

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Michael:
Thats because he doesnt want to find things out for himself. You want to join next time?

Dr. Ben: Yes the green 15% cool power
HeliDirect Field Rep, Synergy N7 w/ OS 105, Torq Servos, Cyclone/ Rail blades
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11-07-2012 12:53 PM  7 years ago
deafheliflyer

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Arizona

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Crash-Prone and overcoming it!!!
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11-07-2012 06:13 PM  7 years ago
kvnm27

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Charleston SC US

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2 cents
I'm not saying that this could be it, being that their are alot of missing factors (i just skim read this), but the ONLY 15% fuel that works is Byrons Rotor Rage Masters Blend. ANY other 15% is not enough!! What I've been told by pros is that if you are using Cool Power in a YS120 or OS105 you need to mix a gallon of 15% and a gallon of 30% to get 22% and THAT will work...15% alone will not cut it!

...something to consider.

Kevin
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11-08-2012 11:50 AM  7 years ago
unclejane

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Oh boy, this again....

No, the Byrons is _not_ the only fuel that works. Read the directions for your engine.

The YS 120 manual calls out a fuel with a low vis. oil only. The manual does not say (when I read it last) you can only use Byrons. Any low vis fuel with enough oil in it will be fine.

The OS 105 manual only says 18% oil content or more. The 15% CoolPower heli/airplane fuel (the MV anyway which has 18%) will work fine in the 105 because it meets the requirements of the engine. The Byrons will also work fine in the 105.

If you're burning your engines up, it's most likely your fault, not the fuel - running too lean is usually the culprit here.

A low vis fuel like the Byrons or any other will _not_ relieve you of the responsibility of learning how to tune your engine. Learn to do that first, _then_ start looking at the fuel.

LS
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11-08-2012 03:46 PM  7 years ago
kvnm27

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Very funny! I stand corrected, however, I wasnt implying that Byrons is the "end all" and the only fuel that will work, rather I was implying that if you dont want to be a chemist in your garage... just go with the byrons rotor rage. If using Cool Power Professionals are being advised by CoolPower assoc. to mix fuel I'm going to hold strong and say I would not recommend using a plain jane 15% Fuel. BUT you are very correct in that how you fly and especially how you tune an engine will greatly depend on the longevity of the engines life and nitro content choices..

hopefully that's a little more clear and offered a little more gray area..I love the "technicality minds" reminds me of my colleagues----"hey you over at building 1234?? No. Where are you then? In front of building 1234.... really, really"

Final note I like everyone else is just passing on what little tid bids we pick up along the way by all means DO NOT take anything I (we) say to the bank, do your research first! Call manufactures if you have too!!
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11-08-2012 11:12 PM  7 years ago
unclejane

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No, the CoolPower fuels are fine also. Just make sure it has the right oil and nitro content and go fly.

YS does call out a low-vis oil package in their manual, last time I looked at it, so you want to obey anything the manufacturer says. But if it's got low-vis oil in it in the right quantity, go fly.

This isn't a concern with the OS 105. 18% or more oil and go fly.

I've never worn an engine out with any CoolPower fuel or any other fuel for that matter. The Byrons is great also.

Bottom line, don't run too lean and don't worry about it. The fuels on the market today are all going to run your engine it's full useful life.

As my old full-scale mechanic used to say "every engine's main problem is its owner!"

LS
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11-12-2012 04:00 AM  7 years ago
honda411

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Surprise, AZ USA

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Well this certainly isnt a fuel type issue.

Yeah he is running CP 15% no problem. We were told by a pro to recommend trying the 20% instead, and seams to run better for him.

We installed new piston, ring, and sleeve and actually started up and ran better off the bat than the piston, ring, and sleeve it came with.

We are still in the process of getting his gov to work correctly with the dx7s and align gov. Sucks in my opinion. Gov kicks on then rpms fall off almost immediately. I dont know if its because HS needle is still too rich or what. But when we leaned it out last time it stayed put on the rpm. This is only idle up though. He is now running an OS7 plug in it.
HeliDirect Field Rep, Synergy N7 w/ OS 105, Torq Servos, Cyclone/ Rail blades
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11-12-2012 05:41 AM  7 years ago
TMoore

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Cookeville, TN

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Most likely what happened is that the fuel pressure system failed and the engine ran lean as a result. I've seen pumped engines do this as well as pressurized engines. If you adjust the needles for a given fuel pressure, when pressure drops the engine goes lean.

You can run any engine on 15% oil content as long as it doesn't run lean. The reason that 30% fuel was developed with 22% oil content is that it made the fuel very easy to tune with little risk of a lean run killing the engine but it isn't a requirement if you know what you are doing and you don't have a lean run. I like 22% better but the low oil content can work too.

TM
Part 107.
The only ZERO flight hour certificate in the world.
It's like getting a driver's license without the driver's test.
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11-12-2012 05:52 AM  7 years ago
honda411

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thanks tmoore!

Im guessing this is what happened. Whats funny also is when its just idling, you can see small fine micro bubbles in the tubing from the pump to the carb inlet. Goes away when throttle is applied and comes back. And sometimes some small bubbles when throttle is applied.
HeliDirect Field Rep, Synergy N7 w/ OS 105, Torq Servos, Cyclone/ Rail blades
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11-12-2012 06:51 AM  7 years ago
Dr.Ben

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Richmond, VA, USA

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Small bubbles in the short tube between the regulator and carb are completely normal on a YS engine.

The high vis oil in the green CP15% did not kill the engine, but when it went lean, that particular oil package gives minimal cushion and time to recognize the problem before destruction occurs. From the CP line, either use their new 20YS blend, the 20% nitro version of the well known 30% hi performnce heli fuel, or at the very lesst the multivis 15% nitro fuel. Sometimes the better fuel choice is made in part not only by what does happen in day to day running but also on those days when things just don't go like they should.

Ben Minor
Peak Aircraft/Team Minicopter Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA
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11-15-2012 04:41 PM  7 years ago
kvnm27

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Charleston SC US

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Thanks guys for clearing that up!!

The one thing that hasnt been discussed is Honda's buddies flying style. Theres a reason 3D Pro's arent running YS120's and OS105's on a regular old 15% or 15% in any engine for that matter. Honda if your guy is just hovering or mild sport flying then cont with 20% if the engine is happy! Run it rich as long as he is happy with flight times. Just remember aint nothing about this hobby is cheap dont go cheap on fuel to save a buck! That engine will thank you!!

OH and sorry to cause such a debate on your thread which was intended to be just a side note and not a solution. Best of luck to you and your buddy!!

K
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11-16-2012 03:02 AM  7 years ago
honda411

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Sweet guys!

Everything is so far so good. He will probably be switching over to the 20% shortly. We have it on the rich side, and still getting good flight times. Thanks for all of the help everyone!
HeliDirect Field Rep, Synergy N7 w/ OS 105, Torq Servos, Cyclone/ Rail blades
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11-20-2012 02:04 AM  7 years ago
franke21m

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Rapid City, SD USA

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Unfortunately I had a 120 cook out on Saturday also. It was the first time fired up and transitioned well with lots of smoke at the factory recomended starting points on the needles. So I put it in a hover to have a buddy check the head speed and heard a pop. Set the chopper down and turned the sterter shaft to find it was seized. What a mess on a engine with about 4 oz of fuel through it.

http://helifreak.com/attachment.php...58&d=1353221918
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11-20-2012 03:06 AM  7 years ago
honda411

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Surprise, AZ USA

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yup looks exactly like his did. Same spot also. Right on exhaust side.

The piston, piston ring, and sleeve were replaced and seemed to run a hell of a lot better than what YS originally had installed. I clean the regulator and everything. Even bearings. Starts right up, and the key is to get it to the point right where its getting happy. But still rich.
His gov would kick on but the HSN you could tell was too rich because the rpm's would fall right off under any load and remain sluggish. Turned the HSN 2 clicks at a time right until it stops falling off rpm. Ran happy until today when the ds650 tail servo failed
HeliDirect Field Rep, Synergy N7 w/ OS 105, Torq Servos, Cyclone/ Rail blades
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11-20-2012 03:19 AM  7 years ago
franke21m

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Rapid City, SD USA

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That sucks, I have the new DFC 700 and was really excited to fly on Saturday. I sent my engine to ys today. Dont know if it can be fixed but I have never dealt with a heli engine that didnt get ot and either shut off or temporally seize til it cooled back down. Ive seen engined damaged but not this bad. I had the throttle at 30% to get a idea on head speed so I am baffled. I wont be starting at there needle setting out of the manual if I get it back. If it cant be fixed under warranty I will get a O.S 105. I just bought this 120 in October. What a mess.
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11-20-2012 04:06 AM  7 years ago
TMoore

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Cookeville, TN

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Any time you are running a new engine it is best to throw the stock needle settings away and start very rich, richer than the instructions call for. The reason being is that you can always dial the needles in but oftentimes, there isn't enough time to dial the settings back, especially on pressurized engines if the mixture is too lean. Smoke doesn't tell the story because of the high oil content is modern high nitro fuels.

TM
Part 107.
The only ZERO flight hour certificate in the world.
It's like getting a driver's license without the driver's test.
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11-20-2012 04:15 AM  7 years ago
franke21m

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Rapid City, SD USA

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I hear Ya, But I am going to say that I can tell you I have run YS91 successfully and never had a problem but at the same time that is not important. Whats important is it dont happen again and any feed back or tips are appreciated.You want to talk about a humbling situation, I am living it. Never in a million years did I think that engine would do that. Like I said Ive seen them seize from getting to hot, but unseize minuted later. I am going back to the drawing board, thats for sure. I will be running slobbering rich on the 120.
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11-20-2012 04:25 AM  7 years ago
franke21m

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Rapid City, SD USA

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Is there any reason to beleive this could happen from the type of blades or the gearing of a stock Trex 3g DFC heli. I bought the new kit from HeliDirect.com and wonder if the 3g blades are enough for this engine?
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11-20-2012 04:33 AM  7 years ago
TMoore

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Cookeville, TN

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Blades don't have an effect on this situation, it's all about the needle settings for the atmosphere and fuel you are running.Part 107.
The only ZERO flight hour certificate in the world.
It's like getting a driver's license without the driver's test.
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11-20-2012 04:37 AM  7 years ago
franke21m

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Rapid City, SD USA

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I am about 4000' above sea level. My elevation should have helped my situation also.
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HomeRC & Power✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterEngines Plugs Mufflers Fuel › YS120 hole in piston
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