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HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › What does it sound like when the mid range needle is lean? Video added
10-09-2012 12:18 AM  6 years agoPost 1
McKrackin

rrProfessor

Lucasville,Ohio

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I haven't been able to fly my OS91 in a long time because my heli and my V Bar 4.0 and my 3GX were always giving me issues.

Now I get some stick time and the engine sounds lean but the temp is fine...190 degrees.

It sounds lean under a load but OK the rest of the time.

I admit to having very little tuning skills.
My flying ability has never been enough to tax anything.

I'll upload a video and maybe you guys can give me some advice.

I literally never use the word literally right.

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10-09-2012 12:23 AM  6 years agoPost 2
jgunpilot

rrKey Veteran

Pollock, LA

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Sounds like you're lean on the high needle.

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10-09-2012 12:26 AM  6 years agoPost 3
McKrackin

rrProfessor

Lucasville,Ohio

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I was starting to think so too.

To be honest,the video sounds leaner than real life for some reason or maybe I can't tune in to it in real life because of my hearing loss....

Converting the video to upload now.....DING...finished.

I'll load it to Youtube now.

I literally never use the word literally right.

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10-09-2012 12:30 AM  6 years agoPost 4
rstacy

rrElite Veteran

Rochester, NY

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I set my engines in this order using a throttle curve and no governor.
High
Idle
Mid

For Mid
Load the engine down in sideways tick tocs.
Get it good and warmed up.
Immediately stop the tick toc and hover the helicopter.

It should quickly drop back in to a steady drone.
If it buzzes or hunts, richen up the mid range.

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10-09-2012 12:44 AM  6 years agoPost 5
McKrackin

rrProfessor

Lucasville,Ohio

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The video is done and uploading...

Definitely lean sounding even though it's not hot.

I wish I could hear it in real life as clearly as the recording

I guess smoke and temp is not good enough.lol....
I will have to record it and listen.

My brother actually said it was lean in the video but I said I thought it was rich.

Need him with me when I get more fuel.lol...

I literally never use the word literally right.

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10-09-2012 01:42 AM  6 years agoPost 6
McKrackin

rrProfessor

Lucasville,Ohio

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Finally.

It sounds pretty bad.lol....

Watch at YouTube

I literally never use the word literally right.

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10-09-2012 02:07 AM  6 years agoPost 7
McKrackin

rrProfessor

Lucasville,Ohio

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Well...my brother watched the video and said it did not sound that bad in real life and it must be my cheap eBay spy glasses....

Said it sounded a little lean on the punch outs but nothing like the video.

That makes sense since the smoke and temp were both OK.

I literally never use the word literally right.

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10-09-2012 05:03 AM  6 years agoPost 8
PilotPin

rrApprentice

Indiana -- USA

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My understanding is mid needle setting is to make good transition from idle to high speed. If it transitions good then it's probably lean on high setting.

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10-09-2012 05:29 AM  6 years agoPost 9
HotsHabit

rrVeteran

Idaho

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I thought it sounded pretty good before you adjusted it. Didnt really sound bad after though either. So hard to tell from a video though too, appeared on the rich side according to the smoke trail. But never really sounded loaded up.

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10-09-2012 06:07 AM  6 years agoPost 10
BladeStrikes

rrElite Veteran

Shelby TWP,Mi

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.............

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10-09-2012 08:26 AM  6 years agoPost 11
datidun

rrElite Veteran

N Ireland

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Not sure if thats correct,i have the tuning chart in front of me,if the engine rpm hangs during an autorotation-the high end needle is to lean NOT THE IDLE NEEDLE.

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10-09-2012 10:56 AM  6 years agoPost 12
McKrackin

rrProfessor

Lucasville,Ohio

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That clicking sound actually is the camera and is in every video of every heli I ever shot.

I literally never use the word literally right.

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10-09-2012 01:45 PM  6 years agoPost 13
BladeStrikes

rrElite Veteran

Shelby TWP,Mi

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.............

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10-09-2012 01:57 PM  6 years agoPost 14
Tyler

rrElite Veteran

Chicagoland area

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Hanging on the pipe after hitting throttle hold indicates a lean top end. Search the forums for this discussion which is covered in great depth.

The hot engine case makes a properly set idle needle starve the engine. The idle needle cannot compensate enough for an overheated engine coming from a hover/forward flight. If you let the engine cool, that "lean" low end needle will probably idle the engine just fine once the engine in at the proper idle operating temperature.

Anyone that disagrees can take this issue up with "The Iceman" himself. He is the one that converted myself and many others to the truth of the matter.

Enjoy things that money can buy IF you don't lose the things money can't buy.

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10-09-2012 01:57 PM  6 years agoPost 15
BladeStrikes

rrElite Veteran

Shelby TWP,Mi

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............

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10-09-2012 02:03 PM  6 years agoPost 16
BladeStrikes

rrElite Veteran

Shelby TWP,Mi

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...........

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10-09-2012 02:33 PM  6 years agoPost 17
RCHSF

rrKey Veteran

NC

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Nothin wrong with that motor, sounds great, and plenty of smoke to keep bugs away.

If it were any richer it would be raining.

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10-09-2012 02:52 PM  6 years agoPost 18
Jeff polisena

rrElite Veteran

westpalmbeachflorida usa

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Motor will hang if low is lean , let idle then pinch line and motor will ramp slightly and quit . If motor runs long lean out if it ramps and hangs richen . After low tune high get it close to power then mid will help transition from low to high . After mid adjustment fine tune high . After a couple of flights you might need to tweak low and mid . Low does effect hanging on the pipe.

I stole it ,flew it and gave it back ;)

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10-09-2012 03:20 PM  6 years agoPost 19
datidun

rrElite Veteran

N Ireland

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Forum from the 3d Masters Tuning reference guide
1.Engine idle too high when trim is reduced-low needle set to lean
2.Engine wont idle and stops proving hard to restart-low end needle to rich
3.Engine rpm hangs during autorotations-HIGH END NEEDLE TO LEAN
4.Engine cuts during bailed out autorotations-high end to rich
5.Seem to be going through a lot of glow plugs mixture to lean,richen high end needle.
Another email sent from a top sponsored pilot states if the engine rpm hangs at a higher level than the set throttle hold idle point for several seconds then the mixture is tending towards the lean setting,any sign of the engine rpm hanging during an autorotation or even perhaps a harsh sound from the engine as the auto begins is a sign of leaning and should be dealt with by richening the high end needle to eliminate.Tyler you are correct the C Youngblood books sais the same

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10-09-2012 03:23 PM  6 years agoPost 20
Tyler

rrElite Veteran

Chicagoland area

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Bladestrike,

To clarify, my comments didnt say that an engine that is lean while sitting at an idle must be resolved by adjusting the high speed needle.

What I did say was that an engine that is beeing flown and hngs on the pipe when throttle hold is probably lean on the top end.

Very big differences in those statements.

If an engine is overheated, hangs on the pipe, then drops into a nice idle after the engine cools (often cooling during the auto once loading is relieved), then the low end is not lean.

If an engine sitting at idle is lean, then the only way to fix it is with the low end needle.

Here is an example...

Lets say a cup of rice requires a cup of water to cook properly. The water is poured into the pot at or near room temp. The flame is lit and the pot and water heat up to temp. Therice isadded to the boiling water. Under thoseconditionsa cup ofwater is sufficient.

Now, take a pot and heat to 1,500 degrees first. Let the heat soak into all the mass. Then toss in that cup of water. Add the rice.

Tell us now if that cup of water was enough tocook the rice?

As soon as that pot is cooled to the proper temperature, a cup of water will be sufficient to cook that cup of rice.

I am certain that Bert, Bobby, and the likes learned much from the great Iceman and other masters, which is why they can tune an engine. If they are tuning properly, then they are adjusting the correct needles.

Of course any adjustent on any one needle will affect the transition to other needles so slight tweaking may re needed to bring them all into the proper balance and relationship.

Enjoy things that money can buy IF you don't lose the things money can't buy.

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HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › What does it sound like when the mid range needle is lean? Video added
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