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HomeScaleAircraftHelicopterScale Model RC Helicopters › Five cnc main rotor head
10-13-2012 07:05 AM  5 years agoPost 41
DrRotor

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Auckland New Zealand

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Ok lets go back to the beginning. Can you tell me what setup you have used?

Are the links from the swash plate to blade grips vertical or slanted like mine?

If they are slanted then try it in the vertical position and see what the master blade does when over the tail and forward stick is given. If it does not move and the swash moves directly forward and not to one side then give it a try like that.

Try this first. If it still does not work then we will move to the next step.

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10-13-2012 01:31 PM  5 years agoPost 42
cossi10

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MLT

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Hi DrRotor & Mojave
First the radio setup is HN3.
2) the links are slanted to get the tailblade not moveing because if you make the links vertical the tailblade start moving on forward stick.
When i do the links slanted like yours the tailblade again does not move but the swash plate works correctly but the swash leans about 2 digress to the left of the helli looking from the front of the helli.it do not work horizontaily. Did i explan myself correctly.
Charlie

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10-13-2012 03:10 PM  5 years agoPost 43
Double E

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Atlanta, GA

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As long as the blade over the tail boom doesn't move it doesn't really matter which direction the swash tilts. When I use the Beast X to electronically adjust the phasing, that is exactly what it is doing. When I give forward cyclic it adjusts the direction the swash moves so that the master blade over the tail boom doesn't move when applying forward or reward cyclic inputs.

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10-13-2012 03:45 PM  5 years agoPost 44
Mojave

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Palos Verdes, Ca. USA

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Did you put a bunch of expo in the aileron before you started this process? A small amount of blade movement during the elev check(twitching slightly) is OK. What you don't want to see is the blade radically changing pitch while it's over the tailboom. I'm thinking that you have overshot the phase setting, which is why your getting ail interaction during elev input. Due to the fact that your swash has those funky phasing links, I can't tell you what is normal tilt during elev inputs. But it looks to me that it is designed to mimic normal swash movement while correcting the phasing. Post up a vid of what you are seeing and we can give you a sanity check.
Barry

All helis and planes have an expiration date stamped on them...you only find it after you crash!!

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10-13-2012 03:52 PM  5 years agoPost 45
cossi101

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Malta

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Thats what i do make you a video Barry & Double
Chalie

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10-13-2012 05:45 PM  5 years agoPost 46
cossi101

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Malta

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10-13-2012 06:36 PM  5 years agoPost 47
cossi101

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Malta

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Hi guys
One thing i did not tell you it's is a home made convertion to ccpm

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10-13-2012 10:42 PM  5 years agoPost 48
DrRotor

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Auckland New Zealand

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Thanks for the videos.

As stated before by Double E it dose not really matter if the swash tilts to one side a little bit but when your rotor disc is spooled up the disc should tilt forward.

As you said before the disc was tilting to the one side a little, the heli will fly in the direction if you flew it, so what I would do is slightly move your swash plate back a little so that the links start to straighten up but not all the way. Dont worry to much about how much the blade over the tail is moving. As long as its not moving buy a large amount it should be fine.

I think you are at the stage now where some fine adjustments need to be made to get the spooled up disc to tilt forward, rearward and to each side correctly. Once this is achieved the heli should respond correctly in flight.

Multi blade rotor heads take some time to be finely tuned. I once setup a 5 blade head on a small Gaui 200. It was perfectly phased statically, (the blade over the tail boom did not move) but when flown it wanted to move diagonally instead of straight. Due to its small size a fiddly nature I did not want to mechanical phase it again so I began mixing elevator and aileron on the TX until it flew in the correct direction. That is an example of mechanical and electronic phasing without a 3 axis gyro.

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10-14-2012 06:01 AM  5 years agoPost 49
Mojave

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Palos Verdes, Ca. USA

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Great vids, it makes it much easier to diagnose the issue. In the second vid where you are wiggling the swash. That is a LOT of slop in the follower. There shouldn't be any movement once the follower is locked down. That's the first issue that you need to address.

Now, back the swash up until the links are vertical and see what you get. Also, put one blade at 90 degrees to the tailboom and do the other sanity check. If after all of this, the disc leans a little to one side on spool up, pop the heli in the air and see what you get in forward flight, then land and correct the swash as needed. If the phasing is close, it's not going to be wildly uncontrollable, it will just tend to fly to either side.
Barry

All helis and planes have an expiration date stamped on them...you only find it after you crash!!

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10-14-2012 10:48 AM  5 years agoPost 50
cossi101

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Malta

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Hi Guys
This moiring i went to the Malta flying club, And i have tried it.
I wasint very happy with this head because as i spool it started to hover but when i tried to correct the helli goes were it wants.... When you see the head spooled but still on the floor not flying and you give it left aleron. it looks ok but in fying left aleron is not there. it can other go forward slity to left front in a 45 degree angle.First the expo i made -50 ale -50 elv
the i made them -20 ale -20 elv. it looks like there is somthing that it is loseing track.
Charles

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10-14-2012 11:32 AM  5 years agoPost 51
cossi101

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Malta

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Look at the spooling

Watch at YouTube

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10-14-2012 12:05 PM  5 years agoPost 52
cossi101

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Malta

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I thing that this head needs the 3 Axis gyro what do you thing guys
Charles

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10-14-2012 04:25 PM  5 years agoPost 53
OTCP64

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Balto Md

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I agree with mojave make the upper pushrods vertical and check it.looks like you are trying to phase it both above and below swash.if you have another 5 blade swash handy I would put that on and look at it.Might help you to better see whats going on.

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10-14-2012 05:41 PM  5 years agoPost 54
Keygrigger

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Mississauga, Ont. Canada

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I watched the video very carefully and something is very wrong with the setup of the cyclic servos. The one servo never seems to move(left side servo) when any input for foreward or reverse cyclic is given. All three servos should be in motion, so I have to ask you what gyro you are using, how is it entred in the radio, and how that has been missed?

For the typical 3 axis gyro, you need to have your transmitter set as a 90 degree servo. That gives control to the gyro for blending cyclic inputs from the transmitter. If you don't have it set correctly, the gyro not get the correct inputs and it will output some very odd moves to the cyclic.

With that head, the pushrods need to be vertical and not angled at all. The arms that the cyclic servos attach to take care of the phasing of the head. If you do not change it, the inputs will be always wrong to the blades. The head you have is a Plug 'n Play design and must be set with everything neutral.

Now, if you are not using a 3 axis gyro, that will change everything. If you are using a standard gyro for the tail only, you need to set your cyclic as a 120 degree head so the transmitter can properly mix the three signals together. I don't know Futaba systems, nor do I want to, so telling me the setup number will mean nothing to me. Once you have all three servos moving up and down when you input pitch, you will have things a bit easier. Once servo should be elevator, and the two other ones should be either aileron or pitch. It does not matter which servo is aileron or pitch, as the direction done in the servo direction or in the swashplate menu will set the movements correctly. Hope this helps everyone trace down what is wrong. Take care.

Don

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10-16-2012 07:43 AM  5 years agoPost 55
cossi101

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Malta

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Keygrigger Mojave OTCP64 & you all Guys

I need help on this head because i can't phase it!
I am going to tell you a bit of the setup i have made..
0ne the radio is futaba 12ch, and it is set on 120 degrees,
The liks from the head to the swashplate are vertical as you can see in the video.The centre link of the swash plate is 90 degrees
from the main shaft to the swash plate,
Can anyone check it for me please.

Watch at YouTube

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10-16-2012 02:34 PM  5 years agoPost 56
Double E

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Atlanta, GA

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A 3-axis gyro will only work if the head and swash are set up properly. You have to make whatever adjustments are necessary so that when you give cyclic inputs the blades and rotor disk tilt in the correct direction.

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10-16-2012 02:38 PM  5 years agoPost 57
doorman

rrProfessor

Sherwood, Arkansas

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Phasing...
I have to agree with Mojave and the others that suggest you use this head with the links being striaght... it seems in the pictures of the installed unit they call out the swash follower in red... I would take this as the critical adjustment that is needed..
Also in watching your last video, it shows me that you are not set up properly... the swash is moving as if it is a standard 2 blade head, in that it goes right when you give it right and straight back when you pull the collective...
It looks to me like you might be loosing the phasing at the bottom of the swash, as you have the upper links running vertical, but the lower swash has the links on an angle... my guess is that all the links both top and bottom must be straight for this head to work... again it is an educated guess... also, usually the swash will not give the proper (LOOKING) direction until the blades are at speed... something to do with gyroscopic progression...
Here is a link to Peter Wells site, that I have used for years to set my multis, and if you get it to act as he suggests, it will be right and it will fly for you... http://scalehelicopters.org/setting.htm

The adjustments needed once you have it close are very small, but will make a huge difference...
Well, I hope this will help you out... good luck, Stan

AMA 2918-Team Spin Blades,,Castle Creations, Unique Aircraft

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10-16-2012 04:30 PM  5 years agoPost 58
JKos

rrProfessor

Redondo Beach, CA

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I'm wondering if it would help to put a normal swashplate on without the head do some troubleshooting. That would allow you and us to see if the CCPM setup is working correctly. Making sure the CCPM setup (including radio settings) is working would seem to be rather important.

As Keygrigger said, something simply does not look right with the servo movements but with the atypical swashplate, it's a little hard to completely tell. You may be fighting the head when it's actually something going on below the swash.

Thanks,
John

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10-16-2012 04:53 PM  5 years agoPost 59
cossi101

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Malta

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Hi guys
I thing i have nailed it at last. the phaseing look good at last.I am going to make a video later on. So you guys can check it out for me please, so see you in a hour.
Charlie

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10-16-2012 05:39 PM  5 years agoPost 60
Keygrigger

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Mississauga, Ont. Canada

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I've got it. The bottom ring where the cyclic servos attach is backwards. The arm that is attached to the left servo should be mounted behind the sevo arm, not in front of it. Flip the bottom ring and then it should work out correctly. Keep the links to the blade grips vertical.

Don

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HomeScaleAircraftHelicopterScale Model RC Helicopters › Five cnc main rotor head
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