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HomeScaleAircraftScale HeliScale Helicopter Main Discussion › RC Aerodyne JayHawk HH60 Trex 600 Flight Characteristics
09-30-2012 08:10 PM  6 years agoPost 21
Rcdxer

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Tifton, Ga US

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Here are a few pictures of the tail connections, helicopter and where the tail blade hits the fuselage. I swapped out the white tail blades with some black CF ones. They seem to be same length but they do not touch the fuselage. Could not find my MM ruler and put side by side they appeared close to same length. Maybe the thinness and curve makes a difference. Appears that I am ready to go test hover again. Letting rx battery charge up for now.

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09-30-2012 08:37 PM  6 years agoPost 22
JoseReyes

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Steilacoom, WA USA

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What's causing this is the angle that the tail is sitting in. It looks way to high on the boom. Look at a picture of mine and how it sits lower on the boom....

You will have to change the angle that the tail unit sits in and perhaps lower it, as it sits too high, looks like is facing downwards when it should be facing upwards a little...

Are you getting enough pitch with that setup? looks like there's not enough clearance between the end on the Sullivan rods and your ball link connectors...

Jose

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09-30-2012 08:59 PM  6 years agoPost 23
Rcdxer

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Tifton, Ga US

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What's causing this is the angle that the tail is sitting in. It looks way to high on the boom. Look at a picture of mine and how it sits lower on the boom....
You will have to change the angle that the tail unit sits in and perhaps lower it, as it sits too high, looks like is facing downwards when it should be facing upwards a little...
Are you getting enough pitch with that setup? looks like there's not enough clearance between the end on the Sullivan rods and your ball link connectors...

Well she got off the ground and started to hover ok except for the tail starting to spin. Those pictures are without power so that may be why you see what you see. As for lowering the tail rotor ..... hhmmmmm ... I set the frame according to picture in instructions. Frame will have to slide forward to bring tail down. That then will create problem with tail servo placement because cable will be too long. I put it according to picture also. Things can be moved!

I thought I have seen helicopters with tail rotors pointing down like mine. But maybe not.

Is yours TT driven or cable like mine?

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09-30-2012 09:13 PM  6 years agoPost 24
Rcdxer

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Tifton, Ga US

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Jose
Just checked everything. Frame/main head centered so cannot be moved. Only thing I can figure is I have the wrong length main and tail cable. Measured old one according to Cliff at RCA so he could send new one. Old cables same length as new. I not sure what the solution is other than cutting cable; which can be done on main; but cutting servo cable and putting ball link connector screw back on to stay is the concern. Any idea's?

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09-30-2012 10:01 PM  6 years agoPost 25
Rcdxer

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Tifton, Ga US

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Hover Test
Just hovered in back yard. She did fine! Tail movement good! Concern with ESC heat but never had problems before. Next test will be on open field. Never hit idle up so head speed approximately 60%-70%. Will test at 75% next time on idle up.

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09-30-2012 11:31 PM  6 years agoPost 26
JoseReyes

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Steilacoom, WA USA

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Hover Test
Just hovered in back yard. She did fine! Tail movement good! Concern with ESC heat but never had problems before. Next test will be on open field. Never hit idle up so head speed approximately 60%-70%. Will test at 75% next time on idle up.

Good.... Just keep an eye on the ESC temperature... See what happens when you go to 75%....

Jose

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10-01-2012 02:11 AM  6 years agoPost 27
coptercptn

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Mesa AZ. USA

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Actually at 75% your ESc temp will probably go down... ESC's typically like to be higher in the percentage ranges to operate efficiently...The heat comes from trying to dissapate too much energy required to SLOW the speed down. If you can gear your headspeed and keep the ESC running around 89-92% it will be happiest.. ( and most efficient.)

Home of the "Sea Cobra".....

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10-01-2012 01:06 PM  6 years agoPost 28
Rcdxer

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Tifton, Ga US

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coptercptn
Thanks for the head speed info!

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10-03-2012 09:49 PM  6 years agoPost 29
Rcdxer

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Tifton, Ga US

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ESC Temp
Test hovered again with some moving around yesterday. As I started spooling her up I went to idle up 1 which is 75%. Flew fine and esc was much better! Had planned on flying today but kept trying to rain.

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10-03-2012 10:35 PM  6 years agoPost 30
JoseReyes

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Steilacoom, WA USA

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Rcdxer, yes I'm using a torque tube on mine. I custom-built it for it....
The flex cable is designed so it forms like a S shape inside the fuse. It does not has to be straight through, in fact they work better with the S shape on them. Hope I'm not loosing you regarding the S shape....in other words a little bend on them is okay...

Jose

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10-04-2012 12:10 AM  6 years agoPost 31
JoseReyes

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Steilacoom, WA USA

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I thought I have seen helicopters with tail rotors pointing down like mine. But maybe not.

Is yours TT driven or cable like mine?

Actually, on the Jayhawk the angle is reversed. Take a look at this pic and you will see how the tail blades are angled....

Jose

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10-04-2012 01:16 PM  6 years agoPost 32
Rcdxer

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Tifton, Ga US

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Jose
Correct on the angle of the tail rotor. But I believe I have seen some pointing down. As I read some forums on the JayHawk there was some mention about CW rotation vs CCW rotation if the angle was pointing up. If you know what I am talking about can you clear that up for me.

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10-04-2012 02:39 PM  6 years agoPost 33
JoseReyes

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Steilacoom, WA USA

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I do know what you're saying. I personally have not seen any Blackhawk's with with the tail rotor down... I found one in particular that does have the tail angle down....

Jose

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10-04-2012 02:43 PM  6 years agoPost 34
Keygrigger

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Mississauga, Ont. Canada

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What they are referring to about rotation is that on a normal model heli, the rotation of the main blades are clockwise with the tail rotor on the right side pushing to the right. If you take a model heli mechanics and install them into a Blackhawk/Jayhawk body, you will have tail rotor on the right side, pushing to the right, with the main rotor going clockwise. On the real heli, the rotation is counter clockwise and the tail rotor pulls against the main rotor, rather than pushes, and the tailrotor also lifts to the right at the same time. If you take a model and try to put normal mechanics with an angled tail without the main rotor travelling the right direction, you will push the tail down. DO NOT angle your tail down any amount. It will have adverse effects on the heli.

It takes a lot of planning to make a Blackhawk/Jayhawk scale when it comes to the main/tail rotor and how they work with each other. I am not sure the engineering of the Sikorsky heli as there was a very good reason why they angled the tail but there must have been an even better reason to keep the rotor on the opposite side from most other full sized helis, like their MH53, which by the way, also gives thrust upward from the left side. It may have been to get the rotor into cleaner air for better pulling performance. Both may use the tail lift to compensate for tail heavy loads from time to time but that is my conjecture. Hope this helps.

Don

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10-04-2012 04:07 PM  6 years agoPost 35
JoseReyes

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Steilacoom, WA USA

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That's exactly the purpose... Looking at the tail blades and how they're setup one can come to that conclusion....

Jose

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10-05-2012 05:16 PM  6 years agoPost 36
Double E

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Atlanta, GA

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Part of the issue with your rudder linkage hitting the fuselage is because you have the rudder unit screwed to the plywood mount inside the tail. You have two options. One is to shift the rudder assembly to gain clearance or dremel out a larger opening in the fuselage. I picked up a V1 Coast Guard Jayhawk pretty cheap from a guy I know and opted to invest in the SmartModel torque tube conversion kit. It was a challenge to get installed but it eliminated the flex drive and allowed me to keep my rudder servo on the boom and use rigid linkage rods for rudder control. Here is a link to my 2nd flight. I need to go back in and immobilize the rudder assembly in the upper tail section because it was floating around a little too much which induced some rudder oscillation. Should fly pretty good once corrected. Definitely shift your battery wait forward to get CG. As others have said, it's very difficult to fly tail heavy helicopters unless you like flying backwards.

Watch at YouTube

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10-06-2012 01:05 AM  6 years agoPost 37
Rcdxer

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Tifton, Ga US

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Double E
Yep the best thing would be to go to the TT setup but need cash to do that. The last 2 hovers at idle up 75% head speed went fine. Moved it around some and felt very good. Hope to go fly it tomorrow to see how she does.

Got the tail blades to not hit fuselage with beastx setup so I am good there. Still have concern with just small screws (even though I upsized a little) holding tail and frame. Used a battery strap around bottom of frame and wood for safety! Pointing down of tail rotor section does not seem to be an issue. Neither tail not main section can be moved due to cable length and the main rotor is centered. Might could cut cable section off to slide tail down. It does not have the soldered ends. Cable slips into the tail and has 2 set screws to lock it down. If she flys ok then I will let it be for now. I might start looking for a 90 size scale to put my 90 heli in!

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10-07-2012 01:28 AM  6 years agoPost 38
Heli143

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Phenix City, Alabama

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DoubleE
that looked realy good especially considering that wind you were facing.

thanks for sharing

Roy Mayoral

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10-07-2012 03:01 AM  6 years agoPost 39
Double E

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Atlanta, GA

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Here is another flight from today. I'm really liking this bird and am getting tons of great feedback from other pilots and spectators at the field. I need to figure out if there is anything I can do with the Align 3GX to help reduce or eliminate the visible fore/aft oscillation the helicopter has in forward flight.

Watch at YouTube

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10-07-2012 03:03 AM  6 years agoPost 40
Double E

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Atlanta, GA

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I actually had a former Army Blackhawk pilot come and compliment me on the helicopter and flight today. That was pretty cool.

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