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T-REX 500 › HELP! please
10-11-2012 06:59 PM  5 years agoPost 61
dkshema

rrMaster

Cedar Rapids, IA

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The buzzing of the rudder is very noticible end point to end point. So once I get the mechanical set up correct, I will re-check end points.
Unhook the ball at the rear end of the pushrod at the tail case, see if that buzzing goes away...

very quick and easy way to see if the servo is binding...

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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10-12-2012 04:56 AM  5 years agoPost 62
aland25

rrApprentice

US

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Sorry for the delay...I unhooked the tail servo push rod so the only thing functioning electrically was the servo itself and obviously there was no buzzing or binding. I think I did what you asked me to do correctly, but I am sleepy. I just spent an hour going through the head setup, adjusting swash level, pitch (+ & -), adding expo (correctlt...i think), ccpm interactions and about two legal pages of notes I took watching bobs videos again. Everything is super solid. I just need a little more time to focus on the tail. I'll Keep you posted.
Thanks again guys

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10-12-2012 03:06 PM  5 years agoPost 63
aland25

rrApprentice

US

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While I work on the tail setup...I noticed the manual does not indicate the length between the center on the servo ball length and center of the servo are screw...do you know what that length is?

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10-12-2012 07:49 PM  5 years agoPost 64
dkshema

rrMaster

Cedar Rapids, IA

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Ideally, you want that distance to be such that the servo is able to travel at least +/- 45 degrees from neutral before the tail pitch slider binds at either end stop with the rudder travel set to 100%.

If the distance is longer, you lose servo travel and resolution. This forces you to run lower gain in your gyro. A small amount of servo movement translates to a large movement of the tail.

If the distance is too short, the servo must travel further, you start getting into the non-linear part of its output, and you are forced to run much higher gains.

Since you're using a pre-drilled arm or wheel, pick a wheel/arm length that gets close to the +/- 45 degrees of travel, then use the travel limit left/right adjustment to fine tune till you get the slider to go from end to end without binding either side.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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10-13-2012 01:36 AM  5 years agoPost 65
aland25

rrApprentice

US

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Just completed full tail setup and tail servo arm travels 45/45 with blades at 0 pitch in center.

In rate mode after travel limit adjustment (55 left and 53 right...not 100 and 100) there NO buzzing.

In hh mode, quite the opposite...there is a lot of buzzing left or right....?

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10-13-2012 02:16 AM  5 years agoPost 66
dkshema

rrMaster

Cedar Rapids, IA

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What are you using to adjust the travel limit? Please say you're NOT using the rudder endpoints in your transmitter. Please....

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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10-13-2012 02:34 AM  5 years agoPost 67
dkshema

rrMaster

Cedar Rapids, IA

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Rudder travel is set using your RUDDER STICK on the TX.

Set your rudder endpoints back to 100% left and right.

Put your gyro into the Travel Limit setting mode.

Then push the RUDDER Stick to the left. The servo will begin to move slowly. Watch the tail slider very closely as it does. When the slider gets very close to the end, and before it bottoms out, let go of the stick, then wait a couple of seconds. Then move the rudder stick to the right, and again watch the pitch slider very carefully. Just as the pitch slider is about to bottom out, return the stick to center. Wait a couple of seconds. You're done.

If you wait a bit too long and the slider bottoms out, move the stick slightly the other direction and the servo will begin to back off. When it clears the stop, let go of the stick...

-----

With a heading hold gyro, the rudder stick REALLY doesn't control the servo, and the rudder endpoint settings don't REALLY set the travel range. This is because when you introduce a heading hold gyro, IT controls the servo. When you are flying in heading hold mode, all you are telling the servo is which direction to let the nose turn, and how fast it is allowed to turn to get to its new position. The gyro intercepts your rudder commands and translates them.

That is why you need to tell the GYRO where the end stops are, as it is controlling the servo and it doesn't KNOW where the end stops are till you tell it. Once that is calibrated, the gyro will never move the servo past the limit you programmed.

Moving the rudder stick tells the gyro which way you want the heli to turn. How far you move the stick from center tells the gyro how FAST you want it to move to that new position. The rudder endpoint values in the transmitter set the maximum rate that you will allow the heli to yaw under all circumstances. That is why you calibrate the gyro with the rudder endpoints at 100%.

Once you're all set up, if you find the heli spins too fast for comfort under full rudder, go to the rudder travel limit setting in your transmitter, and decrease that 100% to something smaller. If you find full rudder doesn't spin fast enough for you, then increase the rudder endpoint past 100%

The object is to get the heli to yaw left and right at the same rate, and that is why you adjust the left yaw AND the right yaw (endpoint settings) individually as part of your setup.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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10-13-2012 03:10 AM  5 years agoPost 68
aland25

rrApprentice

US

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Ok...I will have to work on that in the morning.

FYI...I setup my heli to the "t" like finless bob while watching ccpm 1 & 2 then expo and duel rates as well as ccpm interactions...I know we have been talking about the tail likely, But I just want to say that even after all that setup, I had to change my "sub trim" in the swash menu and gyro menu rather dramatically!

It sounds like maybe every heli can act (or react) differently. Anyone else fund this to be true???

Other that the tail, the heli flies great...however I am not even to the point of right side up "nose in" hovering yet...still need lots of practice.

Thanks

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10-13-2012 03:19 AM  5 years agoPost 69
dkshema

rrMaster

Cedar Rapids, IA

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I guess I don't know why you're having to dramatically change your sub-trims. It's pretty much part of the initial setup to get the servo arms at the correct geometry when the sticks are centered. Once set, you shouldn't have to mess with it again.

-----

One thing that can really help you with getting those neutral and zero pitch settings correct in the initial steps is to set a pitch curve in your transmitter that is 0 - 50 - 50 - 50 - 100.

Using that curve in the early setup stages does two things for you.

First, as long as the throttle/collective stick is ANYWHERE in the flat spot defined by the "50s", the servos will be centered at neutral (and with zero sub-trim, and zero trim). This gives you plenty of leeway with where the stick is for that part of the setup, allows you to make and adjust all your pushrods AND get that middle-stick zero degree pitch thing going for you. It also allows you to figure out which position of the arm on the splined output shaft works best. And THEN you can use the sub-trim to fine tune the neutral spot if needed.

Second, when you move the stick to the 0 and 100 points, you get to see what your maximum negative pitch will be, and what your maximum positive pitch will be. If you've done your homework well, those two numbers will match.

Once your done with the initial setup, you can then use your pitch gauge to properly set all your pitch curves.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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10-13-2012 06:13 PM  5 years agoPost 70
aland25

rrApprentice

US

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Tail fixed!!! Just had to set gyro limit! Thanks again. Hopefully I can send a video soon

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10-13-2012 06:24 PM  5 years agoPost 71
aland25

rrApprentice

US

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At a basic hover and I give the throttle a quick pop, the tail seems jittery like erratic kick to the right, but not much, and it is definitely not a basic consistent tail wag...gain is at 68.

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10-13-2012 07:10 PM  5 years agoPost 72
dkshema

rrMaster

Cedar Rapids, IA

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I don't know if your skill level is there yet, or not, but to set the gain in your gyro, get some decent altitude and put the heli into fast forward flight. Increase the gyro gain to the point where you see (and hear most likely) the tail go into a fast oscillation. Then decrease the gain to the point where the oscillation stops.

Your gain may be too high.

When you set your pinion to main gear mesh, how did you set the backlash? A good practice is to place strip of plain printer paper between the pinion and main gear, then while pushing the pinion into the main gear, tighten the motor mounting bolts. A mesh that's too tight might make the tail act weird.

Is the gyro set for a Trex 500 sized heli? That's one of the setup functions you need to check.

What is the throttle curve you're now using?

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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10-14-2012 01:43 AM  5 years agoPost 73
aland25

rrApprentice

US

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I used to fly Heli's for 2 years straight...but three years ago (lots of electronic changes since) . I will mess with the gyro gain setting. Yes, gyro is set to 'large heli'.

The pinion is not all the way into the gear...should the paper still come out when you mesh the two?

I think throttle is 42, 65, 75, 95, 100

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10-17-2012 12:47 AM  5 years agoPost 74
dkshema

rrMaster

Cedar Rapids, IA

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The paper will be crinkled like a potato chip and will come out when you turn the main gear. The thickness of the paper is what works well for getting the proper backlash.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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10-17-2012 02:50 AM  5 years agoPost 75
aland25

rrApprentice

US

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Ok...throttle is (normal) 0, 60, 85, 95, 100

Pitch is 45, 50, 60, 75, 100

Is that ok?

I have now set gyro gain to 65 instead of 70 per manual

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10-18-2012 04:19 PM  5 years agoPost 76
aland25

rrApprentice

US

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Ok,

So I think I have everything setup and the 500 is flying great. Very little sub trim, no binding on any servo, and no tail way.

I am working on hovering and basic flight.

Thanks guys for all your help.

Is anyone using the 500e pro as a "flybar less"?

I was curious as to what I mat need to get that setup.

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10-18-2012 11:43 PM  5 years agoPost 77
dkshema

rrMaster

Cedar Rapids, IA

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I recently converted my older 500 to FBL.

I ordered a 500 DFC head conversion and a 3GX FBL controller.

Since I did NOT have the 500 Pro, I also needed to order a set of Pro metal grips, as the conversion kit does not have grips, feathering shaft, or thrust bearings.

You would reuse your Pro grips, feathering shaft, and thrust bearings from you current head to complete the changeover.

If you don't want to go 3GX, you can pick up an AR7200BX receiver with integral BEASTx system, or you can pick up a microBEAST. If you go with the AR7200BX, you'll need a DSMx Satellite. In any case, mate the FBL controller with your receiver style of choice (satellite or full-external receiver).

I also needed to order a set of main shaft shims to get the DFC shaft to work with no vertical play. Part number H50157.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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10-18-2012 11:51 PM  5 years agoPost 78
jschenck

rrProfessor

La Vista, NE.

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personally I would just fly it as is and enjoy it for a while. It'll cost you a minimum of $300 to convert it unless you get one of the 3GX's cheaper - still be a $100 conversion for parts on the head especially if you get the DFC swashplate.

Might want to consider getting the new style tail, it's a nice upgrade.

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10-19-2012 12:01 AM  5 years agoPost 79
aland25

rrApprentice

US

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I just got the ar7200bx (beastx) and fbl head. Anything else I need ?

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10-20-2012 03:39 AM  5 years agoPost 80
dkshema

rrMaster

Cedar Rapids, IA

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Make sure you got a DSMx satellite to go with the AR7200BX.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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