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T-REX 500 › HELP! please
10-10-2012 03:00 AM  5 years agoPost 41
aland25

rrApprentice

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I think that may be part of my problem...I spent a few hours (and watching bob's videos 100x's) to
Properly set up ccpm, but I did not even touch the tail set up...the lights on the gp900 are solid red and solid green before spool up.

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10-10-2012 03:03 AM  5 years agoPost 42
dkshema

rrMaster

Cedar Rapids, IA

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He is using an AR8000 with its satellite, not a couple of satellites plugged into the GP900, so his transmitter defaults of channel 5 to control the gain.

The GP900 is pretty much a standard heading hold gyro, but it has a built-in governor function if you decide to use it, CAN hook directly to a couple of satellites if you choose. Connection to an external receiver is similar to that of the 3GX FBL unit, but it does nothing to control the swash servos.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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10-10-2012 03:16 AM  5 years agoPost 43
aland25

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I changed my setup...easier to used gp900 and two sats. I am Not using the ar8000

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10-10-2012 03:22 AM  5 years agoPost 44
dkshema

rrMaster

Cedar Rapids, IA

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I changed my setup...easier to used gp900 and two sats. I am Not using the ar8000
Aha -- that's a bit of information that makes a whole lot of difference!

Jschenk -- good observation, for some reason when Spektrum started building their own transmitters, for whatever reason, they swapped the default channels used to control a gyro and governor when compared to their JR/Spektrum hybrids that got them their start.

JR assumes channel 5 would run a governor/limiter, and channel 7 would run a gyro.

Spektrum assumes channel 5 would control a gyro, and channel 7 a governor. They use this convention in their DX8, DX7s, and presumably their other 7+ channel transmitters. This "channel swap" has created quite a few headaches with people recently.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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10-10-2012 04:54 AM  5 years agoPost 45
jschenck

rrProfessor

La Vista, NE.

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go through the entire tail setup - I'm pretty confident you'll need to use ch-7 (Aux2) for gain control. I haven't setup a GP900 but I think it's the same as the 3GX without the cyclic gyros. your tail is likely wandering around because your Ch7 is set very close to zero right now.

I would suggest starting out with a gain value around 40 and work slowly to tune from there. 70 would likely produce a violent gain wag.

edit - Thanks Dave, just trying to help out another 500 owner. I have a pretty similar setup with my 500 and DX8 so I can follow along with what he is doing

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10-10-2012 05:16 AM  5 years agoPost 46
dkshema

rrMaster

Cedar Rapids, IA

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Swapping channels so that channel 7 (AUX 2) runs the gyro and that channel 5 controls a governor/limiter is a bit of a trick in the DX8.

If you have both the governor and the gyro functions enabled, when you go to reassign the channels, you find that in the Gyro channel selection menu, AUX 2 doesn't show up in the list of available channels, and in the Governor selection menu, GEAR (ch 5) doesn't show up in the list of available channels.

That's because both Gear and AUX 2 are already assigned, and since they are assigned, you can't assign them a second time.

In order to make the swap, you first need to make it so that the Gyro channel isn't assigned to "Gear", or so that the Governor channel isn't assigned to "Aux 2".

With the DX8, you could temporarily assign the Gyro control to channel 8 (Aux 3). When you do that, and then go look at the available selections for the Governor control, you'll see that GEAR is now in the available selections list. Assigning the Gyro control temporarily to Aux 3 frees up "Gear" and makes it available for use elsewhere.

Going ahead and selecting "Gear" to be associated with the Governor function, will then allow AUX 2 to show up in the available channels list for the Gyro function, as you have just made "AUX 2" become available.

-----

With the DX8, I think you may also be able to set the GYRO function AND the GOVERNOR function to "INHIBIT". I think this will free up the "Gear" and "Aux 2" functions so that when you DO enable the gyro function, you'll see BOTH selections available in the menu when you go into either the Governor or Gyro menus.

As soon as you select Gear or AUX 2, the selected function is removed from the list of available selections.

Looks as if the fastest way to get the correct setup would be to Inhibit both the gyro and governor functions, then enable the GYRO function, assigning it to AUX2. You could leave the governor turned off.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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10-10-2012 04:53 PM  5 years agoPost 47
aland25

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Holy Cow, thats a lot of info!.

I think when I get home, I will do mechanical setup of tail rod and servo arm. Then try to re-assign channels as described above.

I know for sure the following to be true on the radio:

1.)
When I go to the channel menu - every channel is "Inh".

However, I know that the hold switch still works as "hold" mode.

Also, in the channel menue, the only channels I have available are "Aux 1, 2 and 3" to select from other than "Inh"..

2.)
Also, when everything is powered up and I move the rudder control and then let go, the rudder always moves back to dead center. Sounds like rate mode to me.

I just don't think I have the channels correct.

Channels are little confusing because (as opposed to the ar8000) I don't think I have aux 1, 2 and 3 available on the gp900 but my 8 channel radio says I do. I think that is what is confusing the most.

Also, could it hurt to just "rebind" the gp900 and two Sats?

One final "off the wall" question. I have two DSM"x" sats plugged into my gp900. But when I power on my DX8 the home screen says "Spektrum DX8 DSM"2" is that normal?

Thanks guys for taking the time to help me.

I was able to hover and it felt great, I just had to spend a lot of my effort controling the tail, which I do not remember doing unless I was in rate mode on my previous helis.

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10-10-2012 06:11 PM  5 years agoPost 48
dkshema

rrMaster

Cedar Rapids, IA

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Whoa....slow down...
Channels are little confusing because (as opposed to the ar8000) I don't think I have aux 1, 2 and 3 available on the gp900 but my 8 channel radio says I do. I think that is what is confusing the most.
Your transmitter outputs 8 channels of information.

The GP900 uses seven of those channels.

Out of your TX you have the following channels, in order:

1 - Throttle
2 - Aileron
3 - Elevator
4 - Rudder
5 - Gear
6 - Aux 1
7 - Aux 2
8 - Aux 3

---

In the helicopter world, and your GP 900 specifically, the receiver interprets those 8 channels as:

1 - Throttle
2 - Aileron
3 - Elevator
4 - Rudder
5 - Governor Speed Selection
6 - Collective Pitch
7 - Rudder Gyro Gain control
8 - Aux 3 -- unavailable for use

---

In your DX8, look at the GYRO menu:

You need to make the bottom left corner say:

CH: AUX2 this links channel 7 - Aux 2 from the TX - to the gyro control.

-----

If you were using a Nitro heli and the Governor, you would look at this menu:

and make the bottom left corner say:

CH:GEAR this links channel 5 - Gear from the TX - to the governor control.

-----
One final "off the wall" question. I have two DSM"x" sats plugged into my gp900. But when I power on my DX8 the home screen says "Spektrum DX8 DSM"2" is that normal?
Although you have a DX8 and DSMx satellites, when the satellites are used in conjunction with the Align 3GX or GP900 units, they bind and operate in DSM2 mode.

-----

Rebinding WON'T change anything.

-----
Also, when everything is powered up and I move the rudder control and then let go, the rudder always moves back to dead center.

Sounds like rate mode to me.
You are correct. Make the GYRO menu say CH:AUX2 as noted above, dial in a number greater than zero, you should be in HH mode.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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10-10-2012 06:35 PM  5 years agoPost 49
aland25

rrApprentice

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Great I will try all when I get home.

So the only way to get into DMS"x" is to use the ar8000 correct?

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10-10-2012 08:20 PM  5 years agoPost 50
dkshema

rrMaster

Cedar Rapids, IA

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So the only way to get into DMS"x" is to use the ar8000 correct?
Yes. Don't get all wrapped around the axle about it not being DSMx, or having to be DSMx...unless you are flying in a giant crowd of people (IRCHA, for example), DSM2 will be more than sufficient.

-----

Just make sure you can get the bottom-left corner of this window:

say: CH:AUX2

then the numbers you enter in the gyro menu WILL control the gain.

-----

As long as you get your gyro controlled how you want it to be, and get the wag taken care of, and everything else just works fine...go fly and enjoy your heli.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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10-10-2012 08:38 PM  5 years agoPost 51
aland25

rrApprentice

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I will thank you guys. I hope to get it going this evening. With a video perhaps. !!!!!! Thanks again

I sure like the clean set up of the gp900 and 2 sats. !!! Great suggestion

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10-11-2012 01:20 AM  5 years agoPost 52
aland25

rrApprentice

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It works! Just had to change channel on radio.

Is it ok to use sub trim on the swash menu for gyro?

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10-11-2012 01:22 AM  5 years agoPost 53
aland25

rrApprentice

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Video to follow...anything you see wrong will help my set up

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10-11-2012 01:34 AM  5 years agoPost 54
aland25

rrApprentice

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This thing is so crazy fast to had to put in som expo on cyclis and lowered pitch level.

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10-11-2012 02:31 AM  5 years agoPost 55
dkshema

rrMaster

Cedar Rapids, IA

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It works! Just had to change channel on radio.
Another satisfied customer. Enjoy the 500.
Is it ok to use sub trim on the swash menu for gyro?
I think you just started speaking Martian. That question doesn't make sense. Looking at the DX8 manual, I don't see an OPTION to use sub-trim in any swash-related menu, and can't relate that part of the question to using it for gyro.

What do you wish to accomplish, and how do you think you can get there? Maybe with this answer, I can figure out what it is you are attempting to do.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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10-11-2012 02:47 AM  5 years agoPost 56
aland25

rrApprentice

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Ok sorry (excited)...when I add sub trim to servo arm on rudder for a true 90 degrees. In hh mode the tail automatically moves to that side...makes perfect sense as the is input in that direction...just wondering if that's ok. I assume it is.

Also, I added some exponential to the cyclic to decrease the speed of my cyclic servos and then reduced pitch overall due to its desire to rocket straight up.

Question now is in rate mode on the gyro, I can adjust the travel limits with no promlem, however in hh mode, regardless of travel setting...with a slight input from the tx, the blades seems to want to go full travel causing the servos to buzz???...thanks again guys. Here is a video...if I can figure out to post.

Can't do video or just don't know how

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10-11-2012 02:58 AM  5 years agoPost 57
jschenck

rrProfessor

La Vista, NE.

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in general I'd suggest "no trim, no subtrim" in the radio setup. really true for the tail setup - again my opinion. Try to get it right mechanically, not with radio adjustments.

for tail, if you are trying to adjust gain adjust the values in the GYRO menu. With the "Sw: F Mode" set you can adjust the gain for each flight mode.

If you want to make the tail spin around faster or slower then adjust the "TRAVEL" for the "Rudder" under the "Servo Setup" menu. less travel = slower spin rate, more travel = faster spin rate.

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10-11-2012 03:00 AM  5 years agoPost 58
jschenck

rrProfessor

La Vista, NE.

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HH mode - the servo will travel to the limit with any input, that's normal. It should NOT be able to travel to the point of binding/ hard BUZZING. I'd suggest going through the gyro setup again and make sure when you do the limit setting you adjust the travel limit to the point where it just hits the mechanical limit then back off a couple points. Don't want any binding.

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10-11-2012 03:42 AM  5 years agoPost 59
dkshema

rrMaster

Cedar Rapids, IA

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I agree that you should attempt to make the setup right without using sub-trim. On most servos, due to the splined output shaft design, there is ONE position of the arm on the shaft that will get you the correct arm placement. If you're using a 4-armed star-type wheel, try each of the four possible positions. One should be dead on, the other three will not. Same goes for wheesl with pre-drilled holes.

Start out with your rudder left and right endpoints set to their default 100% settings.

Sometimes you can only get real close but not dead-on. In that case, use as little sub-trim as needed to get the arm properly positioned.

Center your pitch slider in its travel on the tail rotor shaft, adjust the linkage to make this happen.

Do the setup steps above in Normal mode so the gyro will return the servo to neutral when you let go of the stick.

-----

When you get to the travel limit part of the gyro setup, look very closely at where the slider is moving, and as jschenk noted, DON'T let the slider come up against a hard mechanical stop. You may have to try the travel limit setting a few times till you get the feel, but if the slider bottoms out, you can move the control stick slightly in the opposite direction to back the slider off the mechanical stop.

The servo should be able to drive the slider end to end without ANY binding at either end.

-----

You're using the Flight Mode switch to control the gain in your two flight modes, there is a gain setting for each position of the flight mode switch.

If you find the heli spins way too fast for your comfort, DECREASE the rudder travel endpoint to slow down the yaw rate (you do this for left rudder, and for right rudder, and might end up with different values, but equal left and right yaw rates).

If you find the heli won't spin fast enough, then INCREASE the left and right rudder travel endpoints. Again, you may end up with different left and right values.

The rudder endpoint values control how fast you will allow the gyro to let the heli spin. They don't adjust servo travel, the gyro intercepts the signal and uses it to limit the yaw rate. Since you set up the gyro with endpoints at 100%, numbers larger than 100% increase the maximum allowed yaw rate; numbers smaller than 100% decrease the maximum allowed yaw rate.

-----

Once you have let the gyro power up and finish its initialization, NEVER NEVER NEVER change the sub-trim setting, or the rudder trim setting. Each time you apply power to the gyro, part of its initialization process involves looking at the what should be the neutral rudder position output pulse width. The gyro memorizes that value (typically about 1.50 milliseconds wide) and uses that as its own neutral point.

If you let the gyro power up and complete its initialization, then change either the sub-trim and/or the rudder trim, you have suddenly moved the spot the gyro had memorized as neutral, and haven't told the gyro you did so. That's cheating, and the gyro will act up, and may end up driving the servo to one end and pouting at you.

The rudder trim setting for each flight mode must be identical. I believe your DX8 allows you to select a "trim step" -- the amount of movement a servo will get for each click of the digital trim tab. I dial that number down to zero which makes it so I CAN'T change trim settings.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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10-11-2012 04:47 PM  5 years agoPost 60
aland25

rrApprentice

US

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ok guys. I understand what you are saying.

I used a servo arm that would allow me to install the gp900 on top of (lower) electronic plate and the ar8000 on the bottom so there was not enough room for a full servo arm. I used the 4 arm servo arm and trimmed off the other tabs not used. I still do not think there is enough room to use any other servo arm if I keep the gp900 on the top of the (bottom) electronics plate. I will have to check this evening and ensure that the arm is mechanically centered first. If not, I will change out the arm. (all the while keeping all trims at zero for rudder and travel to 100% to start with).

The buzzing of the rudder is very noticible end point to end point. So once I get the mechanical set up correct, I will re-check end points.

Also, I check the "step trim" for rudder and I had previously set it to "0" zero.

Thanks again for all your help. I will keep you posted.

PS - I had my wife take some video on me hovering last night on my iphone. Is there a way to convert from a .mov file to a file accepted by runryder? looks like it has to be a "youtube" video?

Thanks again

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