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HomeAircraftHelicopterThunder TigerRAPTOR X50 › X50 Initial Thoughts
09-29-2012 07:26 PM  6 years agoPost 21
navyraptor

rrApprentice

CA, USA

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I did add another torque tube bearing on both of mine, what tail blades are you using?

Raptor G4N, Raptor E720, Raptor E700, Raptor 90SE, X50F, X50E, 14sg

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09-29-2012 08:44 PM  6 years agoPost 22
Avi8tor

rrNovice

Charlotte, NC

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I'm using the supplied blades. Swapped them out for a brand new pair and ensured they were balanced.

I tore down the tail grips and found one thrust bearing backwards.
Greased them both as they were dry, put it together and hovered it.

Still getting a wag but it seems a bit more toned down. Still kicks a little and wanders because of the low gyro settings. Upped them gradually and it just got progressively worse.

Going to tear into the torque tube. I was wondering if another bearing might calm it down some. I ordered a set.

EDIT: Actually, I think I will put the servo ball link back in one hole as I moved it out to almost 18mm. Moving it in one gives me about 13.5mm hole to hole. Will try that before tearing into the torque tube.

Not going to let the heli win.

R/Avi

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09-29-2012 11:05 PM  6 years agoPost 23
payne1967

rrElite Veteran

uk

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have another look at the thrust bearing
is it damaged from running the wrong way around?
check to see if any loctite hasn't got into the other bearings
and make sure the tail pitch slider is free

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09-30-2012 03:52 AM  6 years agoPost 24
Avi8tor

rrNovice

Charlotte, NC

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I looked at the tail again. The thrust bearings look fine but I realized that I'm an idiot and had the grips on backwards. Went back to the manual and realized my picture didn't match theirs.

Then I went and checked all of my 450s. They are correct.

Will test fly tomorrow. Hope the backwards grips is the problem.

R/Avi

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09-30-2012 06:01 AM  6 years agoPost 25
Scooterpilot

rrKey Veteran

Southern, California

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The X50 is a agile model. Hope you sort everything out. Double check everything.

I put a N5c together a while back and I had issues with it and I've been buidling for years. In my case it wasnt the product but the process I used to assemble the tail rotor. After speaking to a N5c rep and discussing the problem it was all sorted out.

Regards
Scooterpilot

Two G-4's & X50's YS60SR,Futaba 18SZ/12Z/14FG, ,Rail Blades Rep

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09-30-2012 04:11 PM  6 years agoPost 26
Avi8tor

rrNovice

Charlotte, NC

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Thanks Scooter.

I did a test hover with the grips on correctly and still have the vibration/wobble.

I'll tear down the torque tube and inspect it.

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09-30-2012 05:03 PM  6 years agoPost 27
Avi8tor

rrNovice

Charlotte, NC

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Think I may have found the problem.

The torque tube shaft is warped. Rolling it on a flat surface shows the ends wobbling about a 1/2 inch radius.

Just for grins, I chucked the shaft in my drill and it wobbled so badly, it almost shook the drill out of my hand.

Has one bearing in there. How do I fix this? Do I add another bearing or try to locate a new shaft or both?

R/Avi

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09-30-2012 05:33 PM  6 years agoPost 28
Gary H

rrVeteran

Minnesota USA

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A new shaft and 2 bearings, this is what I run in mine.

GH

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09-30-2012 10:45 PM  6 years agoPost 29
tayas

rrKey Veteran

North East of the USA

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1/2 inch is way too much.
new TT is your best bet.i only have one bearing,but next crash i'll try two just for the hell of it.
you are getting close.

Pilot,Pilot

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09-30-2012 10:58 PM  6 years agoPost 30
Avi8tor

rrNovice

Charlotte, NC

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Well I tracked down a new shaft from a buddy and added two bearings. Much straighter.

Test hover revealed I still have a wag. If I keep putting parts in this thing, I'll have bought for it twice!

I dunno. I'm at a loss. Only thing left I can think of is possible servo change but I don't want to shell out 150 bucks to see if it magically disappears.

So in summary, this is what I've tried:
1. Fixed thrust bearing in tail
2. Swapped grips around from being backwards (idiot moment)
3. replace tail blades 3 times
4. Ground down starter shaft to it didn't rub against motor
5. Put a new fan in (balanced)
6. Put a new clutch in (shortened the bolts so it won't shear off)
7. Replaced starter shaft bearings and block
8. Replaced top and lower main shaft bearings & Block (plastic to metal)
9. Replaced Torque tube shaft and added 2 bearings
10. Swapped out gyro (CGY750 to 3GX)
11. Added metal plates under the gyro and additional pads
12. Corrected air leaks in the main tank (clunk line split)

The head is factory FBL conversion. I haven't touched it or taken it apart. Tried Mavrick, stock, and Radix blades.

Only thing left is main shaft, torque tube gearing, main gear, .45 cal holes to make it lighter.

On the shelf it goes for a while.

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09-30-2012 11:25 PM  6 years agoPost 31
johnbs8

rrKey Veteran

roseville michigan

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what kind of a tail wag are you talknig about? A little wag here and there or a hunting unflyable wag? Is the tail holding? Is this flybar or FBL? What gyro/fbl unit? Ive noticed over the years that all my TT helis have had some sort of a small bobble in the tail while hovering. I fly it anyways. They have been like that forever. As long as the tail holds fly that beast. You can chase a bobble untill you go crazy or just fly it as long as its flyable. As far as the starter shaft bearing block goes, there is a little play in both my helis. Never seemed to be a problem. Check the runout on your clutch. Or just simply turn it 90° and see if that helps. Oh, did you do a mechanical setup in rate mode on the tail?

TT X50 Nitro
Warp 360
Logo 550sx
TeaM KicKnWinG

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09-30-2012 11:46 PM  6 years agoPost 32
Avi8tor

rrNovice

Charlotte, NC

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The machine has a factory FBL head.
It's flyable but has a low wag back and forth at all gain levels and all head speeds.

Did the rudder setup in rate mode on both the 3GX and CGY750
Dropped the gains on both units to zero (AILE and ELEV) while keeping the rudder gain up. Still does it.

Higher gain levels of course result in a faster wag.

Head speed variation makes zero difference.

Just seems nothing will get rid of it.

I would expect it to be fairly smooth. Engine is broken in and tuned to 200 - 220F and I'm not ruling that out as the culprit.

R/Avi

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10-01-2012 05:36 PM  6 years agoPost 33
Scooterpilot

rrKey Veteran

Southern, California

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Avi8tor,

I have about 16 fights on my X50. At about flight number 7 I was climbing out at the tail kicked like I had put a quick left rudder input. I went what???? All new electronics, new model, so I was at a loss.

I did an auto and put the model on the bench, checked everything I could think of and couldn't find a problem. The guy I fly with suggested that I replace the CGY750. I told him I really didn't think that is the problem.

I started up the X50 and took it out to the pad. The second the skids left the ground it started an uncommanded slow left piro. I tried to counter the piro with right rudder input and nothing. I shut the model down again. I decided to replace the rudder servo and see if that would fix the problem. I was lucky because I had just sold another airframe and kept the electronics, so I had a spare rudder servo.

I intalled the rudder servo started up the machine and problem fixed.

Avi8tor, I'm not saying the problem is your rudder servo, just wanted to let you know sometimes the trouble shooting is easy and sometimes it isn't.

Regards
Scooterpilot

Two G-4's & X50's YS60SR,Futaba 18SZ/12Z/14FG, ,Rail Blades Rep

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10-01-2012 06:46 PM  6 years agoPost 34
Avi8tor

rrNovice

Charlotte, NC

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Greatly appreciate the advice. Have heard from quite a few saying "change the rudder servo."

A friend is going to loan me a BLS251 tonight and will give that a go.

On the positive side, the tear downs have allowed me to correct several existing issues such as warped TT and installation errors on the tail.

R/Avi

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10-01-2012 08:16 PM  6 years agoPost 35
tayas

rrKey Veteran

North East of the USA

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

just a thought,
check the tail slider.
if u still have the stock plastic, change it to a metal one.
mine fail on me to the point where there was no thread left.
make sure it's not starting to go.

Pilot,Pilot

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10-01-2012 08:30 PM  6 years agoPost 36
Avi8tor

rrNovice

Charlotte, NC

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Tks. Got a metal slider on there already

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10-01-2012 10:59 PM  6 years agoPost 37
toto

rrApprentice

Argentina

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Avi8tor,

Try with smaller/lighter tail blades.

Best regards,

Gaston

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10-02-2012 08:51 AM  6 years agoPost 38
NitroAl

rrApprentice

Gold Coast Aus

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Try increasing the tail dead band, could save you some spending.

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10-02-2012 06:14 PM  6 years agoPost 39
Avi8tor

rrNovice

Charlotte, NC

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Forgive my ignorance but what would be a good starting point for dead band? On my 3GX, I have it set to large heli but thought you could actually adjust percentages in the software?

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10-09-2012 01:18 AM  6 years agoPost 40
JeffKollin

rrKey Veteran

Jenison, MI

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I have done everything that you have done. Sorry you also have gone through this. I went as far as putting 3 bearings on the tt and forever chased a vib that has been now decreased to a wag. It is very upsetting to have to spend time and money to correct something that should have been taken care but seems not everybody is having these issues. I feel your pain. The wag I deal with because I only notice it in a hover and not in flight with how I fly. The biggest thing that I have been dealing with after all that is during piro flips the tail is not consistant in piro speed. It will whip while in flips. This has turned me off greatly to the TT version. But with all this it does not seem to be all of them. I really like how light the heli flies. I have been thinking hard about just giving up on it and moving on or maybe even going to the point of taking off the tt and going belt. Good luck in your "research" to track down the problem and hope you really get to finally enjoy the heli it was meant to be.

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HomeAircraftHelicopterThunder TigerRAPTOR X50 › X50 Initial Thoughts
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