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HomeAircraftHelicopterFlybarless Rotor Head SystemsV-Bar › Mini vbar won't hold tail
08-12-2012 07:41 AM  5 years agoPost 1
crunch

rrApprentice

Peterborough, England

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any advice please

i have trex 450 pro 2, with mini blueline vbar 5.3 express

i have a jr 3500g tail servo,and cant stop tail blowing out, i started out with servo arm distance so i had 100% throw each way. as soon as i applied full pitch it would piro on me and just would not hold. i adjusted gain to max 121 still the same.

i put a bigger servo arm on so now i only get 80% each way. it now holds full pitch climb out but blows out on tic tocs, again at 121 max gain.

even with longer servo arms i can get max gain with no wagging

do i need pro version or am i missing some thing.

thanks paul

ive never needed so much help untill i turn my fleet into vbar

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08-14-2012 10:30 PM  5 years agoPost 2
Agilefalcon

rrKey Veteran

Fort Worth, Texas

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It has nothing to do with the version that you have and everything to do with your setup: Check blade length, RPM, travel limits, mechanical friction in your system, servo arm and pitch slider centers.

You must be able to get full stop to stop travel of your tail slider for example. You can start with a centered servo arm (90degree to tail control rod with a centered tail pitch slider). This may not be optimum for your machine as you might need an offset to have some positive tail pitch at center travel.

Be sure there is no friction in your system and no slop either.

Chris

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08-15-2012 05:30 AM  5 years agoPost 3
Sam2b

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Tacoma, WA

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Yes, at tail servo center you need to have about 3 degrees of right-thrust. That means the tail blades should be in the position to make the heli pirouette clockwise (nose right). Follow the instructions in the picture below, as stated in the Vbar software. Note what it says about your servo horn length. That means you might need to change what hole position. Usually you will need to use the hole closest to center, or might even need to drill your own custom center hole to be the absolute closest to the center as possible. Also try selecting a different servo type. This tells the vbar what uSec and hz the servo is, which is important for the vbar to work with the servo correctly.

After you make that adjustment, and set max travel positions, you definitely want to reduce the tail gain. 120 will be unflyable and may cause damage. Reduce to something between 60-80
might need an offset to have some positive tail pitch at center travel.

_Sam B_

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08-15-2012 03:57 PM  5 years agoPost 4
crunch

rrApprentice

Peterborough, England

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Hi

The reason for asking if I needed to upgrade to pro version is because there is a lot more adjustment for the tail, As you can put in pre comp for tail, I gain, p gain, acceleration gain ect.
So could dial it out.

My set up is as follows:

My Trex 450 pro 2 states that tail pitch slider should be set up in the middle with equal travel both ways. Servo arm 90 degrees to model.
There is a little slop in the tail but this is common on Trex 450 pro.
I have full travel with 100% throw both ways and tail slider hitting stops.
This would not hold tail in a climb out even with max gain
I then put a longer servo arm on, so had to reduce the throws to 80%
This now holds full pitch climb outs but not tic tocs.

My question is on max gain it should wag and it don't so don't feel
I'm getting max gain. The vbar shows it at 120 but don't feel i have any holding power. I changed servo for the same type and still no difference.
There is no binding every thing is smooth.
Ill give offsetting tail a try but this won't alter the fact it don't wag at max gain.
I've got tail servo set on jr3400 setting which i think is the same as The Jr3500 unless anyone knows different.

Thanks Paul

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08-16-2012 02:06 AM  5 years agoPost 5
Sam2b

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Tacoma, WA

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Crunch, no you do not need to upgrade to get the tail to work. Just re-read the text in the picture I provided above. Your answers are all right there to the very last detail.

Also, perform a trim flight (hover in zero wind) for 1 minute. This will center the tail for optimal performance.... assuming the end points are max left & right.

_Sam B_

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08-16-2012 02:08 AM  5 years agoPost 6
Ronald Thomas

rrMaster

Gainesville, Fl, USA

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Go with larger tail blades

Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!

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08-18-2012 09:36 AM  5 years agoPost 7
OICU812

rrMaster

Edson, Alberta, Canada

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ahh trex 450 get a 8910 MKS or a BLS 251 and be done with it...

...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...

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08-18-2012 10:59 AM  5 years agoPost 8
Taipan

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Sydney, Australia

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Shawn, surely you mean a BLS257 mini size servo?

The MKS DS95i is the ultimate tail servo for a 450!

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08-18-2012 11:03 AM  5 years agoPost 9
OICU812

rrMaster

Edson, Alberta, Canada

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No lol. I did run a bls251 but that was sometime ago yes

Now of course as you say more options. 3400g was not one I was ever satisfied with. The MKS you mention would now be my choice or a 8910a

...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...

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08-18-2012 04:00 PM  5 years agoPost 10
GetToDaChopper

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Las Vegas , NV

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The MKS DS95i def is one sweet servo......

    ▲
  ▲ ▲
▲ ▲ ▲ One of a Kind !!!

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08-18-2012 08:17 PM  5 years agoPost 11
crunch

rrApprentice

Peterborough, England

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I'll get myself one of them then.

And give that ago.

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09-08-2012 03:05 AM  5 years agoPost 12
deafheliflyer

rrKey Veteran

Arizona

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I agree on the MK 95i servo.. I have it on my 250 and never have tail issues (and Ive tried most tail servos on the market for the 250 including 9257,3400g, etc)

Crash-Prone and overcoming it!!!

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09-08-2012 09:10 AM  5 years agoPost 13
crunch

rrApprentice

Peterborough, England

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Just fitted the mks 95i and upgraded tail to latest gearbox, going to try it today.

You should not have to buy new parts for a new heli.
New tail gear box ,bearings.
The bearings lasted 3 flights.

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09-08-2012 01:50 PM  5 years agoPost 14
Kyle Owen

rrApprentice

Newberry, Florida

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Are you sure you dont accidentally have it in rate mode instead of lock mode

sponsored by overtime
Formerly known as MADROTORZ
THANK A VERTERAN, PUNCH A POLITICIAN

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09-08-2012 02:22 PM  5 years agoPost 15
crunch

rrApprentice

Peterborough, England

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Latest new on my 450 pro v2

I have upgraded the tail to the latest linkage system that they do, replaced bearings in tail grips as they lasted a couple of flights,I got my self a new mks d95i servo.

And the same thing is happening.its shown up more to being.
About a minute in to flight the tail is fine upto that point and then it just let's go completely.
The stick goes dead on rudder only as soon as its landed the rudder is back. The tail is super smooth with all the new parts with no binding.
I have upgrade vbar to pro version just so I could look at log,and nothing apart from a couple of raised vibrations. It is only the tail shutting down nothing else.
I thought it might be a static hit from something,I known its not belt drive, but nothing on vbar log.

Any ideas before it goes it bin.

Thanks Paul

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09-08-2012 02:25 PM  5 years agoPost 16
Ronald Thomas

rrMaster

Gainesville, Fl, USA

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Can you list your complete setup? Maybe the one way is slowly letting go???

Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!

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09-08-2012 02:30 PM  5 years agoPost 17
crunch

rrApprentice

Peterborough, England

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Don't think one way is playing up because when tail shuts down there in no control from rudder stick in either direction.
The tail don't come back untill it's landed

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09-08-2012 02:36 PM  5 years agoPost 18
Ronald Thomas

rrMaster

Gainesville, Fl, USA

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Sounds like a loose connection or a bad solder joint.....try this:
While moving the ridder stick:
(1) Tap on the VBAR unit close to the rudder port
(2) Wiggle the wires also to see if it fails then

Team MikadoUSA 480XXTreme, 550SX, 600SX, 700XXTreme, 800XXTreme!!

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09-08-2012 04:14 PM  5 years agoPost 19
crunch

rrApprentice

Peterborough, England

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My setup is

Standard align 450 pro 2
Standard align servos
Blue Mini vbar
Mks 95i tail servo
1 spectrum satelite receiver

Standard motor and esc

Vbar was on express version just upgraded it to pro

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09-08-2012 04:24 PM  5 years agoPost 20
crunch

rrApprentice

Peterborough, England

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Tried moving wires can't get it to fail
Any more ideas

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HomeAircraftHelicopterFlybarless Rotor Head SystemsV-Bar › Mini vbar won't hold tail
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