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HomeAircraftHelicopterMain Discussion › ....This is how someone gets killed....
08-12-2012 05:32 AM  6 years agoPost 141
Solmanbandit

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Tucson , AZ

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However, considering the possibility of mechanical failure, it was a silly thing to do when I look back on it.
There is the possibility of mechanical failure in everything around us. Airplanes flying over our heads, cars doing 40-50 mph while we are walking next to them on a side walk, etc. We can be cautious and try to be safe, but nothing is a guarantee. It is all about risk management. Before I fly somewhere, I ask myself "Do I feel comfortable and safe flying here? If I don't meet both of those criteria, then I don't fly. Heck, there have been times where I even go to the airfield and don't feel comfortable with the current conditions. If you feel that you need more criteria, then don't fly. It is as simple as that.

Trex 700E / Trex 500 ESP - Ikon/ HD 500 - Ikon 2/ Goblin 500 Ikon 2

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08-12-2012 05:35 AM  6 years agoPost 142
Rotormaster

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Australia

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Excuse me Mate but you are woefully late in this thread and that one quote
has been taken way out of context. Quote the rest of it and then comment.
And how is the rest of that post of any relevance to the particular part that I addressed? The statement I quoted was simple
If we had used the McKrackin doctrine back in the day, model
helicopters wouldn't exist today because they are inherently unsafe.
and as I already showed, it is a ridiculous exageration.

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08-12-2012 05:36 AM  6 years agoPost 143
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

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No it's not.

Back in the day we used to have AMA Nationals at airports and Naval Air Stations, Dieter Schluter used to fly at airports. The point I was making was in the beginning we used to do a lot of things we don't do now.

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08-12-2012 05:43 AM  6 years agoPost 144
HeliOCD

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San Diego, CA

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McKrackin and a lot of other folks are assuming that the video was shot in a park. Was it? I can't tell
The instructor is saying, Are you sure its ok to fly in this park?
The newbie says back. Sure its ok, do it all the time. Just an occasional kid or two, nothing I cant fly around. Besides it does say public park right?
Anyway this cant be any different then my AirHog right..
Now strap that heli on me, and stop busting my balls...

I think I translated that right!

Its all earth!

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08-12-2012 05:48 AM  6 years agoPost 145
Solmanbandit

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Tucson , AZ

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Anyway this cant be any different then my AirHog right..
Now strap that heli on me..
Nice, famous last words before crashing and burning. Hey, I can fly a Cessna on my Xbox, so I can fly a F-16. Now strap that jet on me!!!

Trex 700E / Trex 500 ESP - Ikon/ HD 500 - Ikon 2/ Goblin 500 Ikon 2

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08-12-2012 05:48 AM  6 years agoPost 146
TMoore

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Cookeville, TN

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It's not my native country and not my native language so I can't comment either way. Maybe what they are doing is perfectly fine where they are.

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08-12-2012 05:56 AM  6 years agoPost 147
Rotormaster

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Australia

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There is the possibility of mechanical failure in everything around us. Airplanes
flying over our heads, cars doing 40-50 mph while we are walking next to
them on a side walk, etc.
What is the dedicated area for cars?
What is the dedicated area for 747s?
What is the dedicated area for rc helicopters?

You are comparing necessary public and personal transport in their respective allocated areas of operation to a personal hobby in what is not a dedicated area of operation.

Would you use the same argument if I were to take a gun and do some target practice at my local park? Disregarding the law, what is the difference between doing that personal hobby at the park vs our helicopters?

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08-12-2012 06:01 AM  6 years agoPost 148
Rotormaster

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Australia

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No it's not.
Back in the day we used to have AMA Nationals at airports and Naval Air
Stations, Dieter Schluter used to fly at airports. The point I was making was
in the beginning we used to do a lot of things we don't do now.
Ok, therefore, if it were up to McKrackin, rc helis today would not exist. Got it.

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08-12-2012 06:11 AM  6 years agoPost 149
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

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Here's a video of a small electric RC Heli flown in a big indoor venue. Is it safe?

Watch at YouTube

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08-12-2012 06:40 AM  6 years agoPost 150
BobOD

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New York- USA

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"Hey, I live in a congested area. It's hard to find a good place to fly. The park is the only place suitable for me. So it's only fair I should be able to fly there"
Says the self serving RC'r. Also might say, "don't ask because if you do they might say no".

"I'm going to sue that neglegent bastard! And while I'm at it, I'll sue the town, the state and the AMA!!!"
Says the very same guy after his daughter was hit in the face with a Trex450.

For the record, I don't have a problem if someone is flying in some desolate park where entry to the flight area is clearly visible to the pilot. And I certainly don't have an issue if it's a park with permission, and controls. For me it only becomes an issue when people start stretching things to further benefit themself. It's amazing what gets "justified" when left up to discretion.
Good lord....a 450 refered to as a park flier. Surely that's a freaking joke.

Oh, and BTW, regarding the oblivious people walking into the flight area, you're at fault....not them. Sorry if that seems unfair but that's how you take responsibility for your actions. If it happened from time to time, you need to find a way to stop it. If not possible, consider the site is not proper.

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08-12-2012 06:41 AM  6 years agoPost 151
Rotormaster

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Australia

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Here's a video of a small electric RC Heli flown in a big indoor venue. Is it safe?
Is that a trick question?

Although I think we can both agree that that song does more harm than the little heli could possibly do, it does seem to be slightly bigger than an mcpx, so it definitey has the potential to produce some lovely cuts. When I read "big indoor venue" I thought it was going to be an empty sports gym, but that place is packed with people.... Of course it is dangerous.

I bet you half of those unassuming people don't have the witts to even fathom how that heli could pose any danger. It's as harmless as a fluffy teddy bear.

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08-12-2012 06:41 AM  6 years agoPost 152
Solmanbandit

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Tucson , AZ

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What is the dedicated area for cars?
What is the dedicated area for 747s?
What is the dedicated area for rc helicopters?
You are comparing necessary public and personal transport in their respective allocated areas of operation to a personal hobby in what is not a dedicated area of operation.
Would you use the same argument if I were to take a gun and do some target practice at my local park? Disregarding the law, what is the difference between doing that personal hobby at the park vs our helicopters?
If you were to use some common sense, the point is that danger exists everywhere whether we like it or not. Now if you are too narrow minded to realize that, then continue on.
Would you use the same argument if I were to take a gun and do some target practice at my local park?
Why not, if there is a safe place to shoot. Look at the Xheli videos. Their flying field is directly next to a gun club. So therefore, the answer would be yes.

Trex 700E / Trex 500 ESP - Ikon/ HD 500 - Ikon 2/ Goblin 500 Ikon 2

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08-12-2012 06:54 AM  6 years agoPost 153
Rotormaster

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Australia

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If you were to use some common sense, the point is that danger exists
everywhere whether we like it or not. Now if you are too narrow minded to
realize that, then continue on.
As I explained, the point of danger being everywhere is not valid. The danger of cars on the road and planes overhead is a danger that society as a whole knows and accepts.

Do most park flyers go door knocking around the community to ask people if they accept the risk of them flying helicopters at the park... just after educating them on the fact that they are potentially lethal?

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08-12-2012 06:58 AM  6 years agoPost 154
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

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Is that a trick question?
It was indeed. The reality is that small heli with foam blades is probably the safest electric on the planet and I think that what they did, although I wouldn't do it myself, is perfectly safe. I do believe it was an Aeromodelers meet so it wasn't totally unfamiliar territory for the participants.
Oh, and BTW, regarding the oblivious people walking into the flight area, you're at fault....not them. Sorry if that seems unfair but that's how you take responsibility for your actions. If it happened from time to time, you need to find a way to stop it. If not possable, consider the site is not proper.
I agree with you, I never felt comfortable flying at Buder for that very reason but the flying field was carefully deliniated and there were plenty of warning signs but that's the whole point about being "oblivious". Accidents happen and as a community we are as guilty of safety violations as anyone of the folks we are chastising here tonight. At a recent local event a pilot standing at the flight line with a "group" of pilots had a malfunction and centerpunched a fellow pilot in the abdomen requiring a Lifeflight ride to Erlanger. This was at an electric FF and if I had been the CD there I can tell you that the conga line pilot confabs at the flight line would have been strictly taboo and broken up immediately. How many events do we go to and see exactly this very thing where there is a pack of pilots at the flight station egging each other on or just kibitzing? We're one pivot ball backing out or one link away from a serious accident but the announcer will cheer on the pilot with "lower, lower" to the thrill of the crowd and we're all there with them. Happens every year at IRCHA.

As a CD I've been to lots of events where there have been safety issues come up and if you don't say something we're as guilty as the poor dudes in the OP's original video.

TM

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08-12-2012 07:50 AM  6 years agoPost 155
Solmanbandit

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Tucson , AZ

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Do most park flyers go door knocking around the community to ask people if they accept the risk of them flying helicopters at the park... just after educating them on the fact that they are potentially lethal?
You have no idea on all of the stuff we are subjected to on a daily basis that people don't know about. Do you really know all the risks that you are subjected to on a daily basis? Or better yet have a choice? Also do you accept the risks of full scale planes flying over your head, or do you just press on because you don't have a choice?

Trex 700E / Trex 500 ESP - Ikon/ HD 500 - Ikon 2/ Goblin 500 Ikon 2

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08-12-2012 09:30 AM  6 years agoPost 156
taxus812

rrApprentice

Conecticut - USA

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Tough nut to crack
My knee jerk reaction was holy crap he is in a local park. That said there is something to the instinct BUT we don't have all the information as to the location and population of the location. We are forced to speculate.

Of course since we are speculting, It is very possible that he is thinking that the heli hovers just a few feet from me so I only have to worry about a small area around me.

As for the discussion about flying in a park. That is way to vague to make a blanket statement of its not safe.

I have "parks" near me. They are really local land that is left almost natural with a parking lot. Since I live near them I also know how/when they are utilized.

One "park" It is quite safe to fly there and I have at lunchtime or at 8:00am on a Sunday. Its a big unmowed field with some trails. Access is by vehicle or by walking across an open field that I can see long before they get to my location. Other people do go there on rare occasion and I will not fly when they do.

We also have traditional parks with big landscaped grassy fields or sports fields. I don't risk flying there (even in winter) and would expect people to complain if I did. (the video looks like this type of "park" )

Man is so anxious about his future that he does not enjoy the present. - Dalai Lama

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08-12-2012 01:39 PM  6 years agoPost 157
icanfly

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ontario

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isn't the idea of a heli killing someone way too hysterical. You'd be hit and killed by lightning before any rc heli could.

Heli flyers are way too conscientious to allow their investment anywhere near hazards walking and/or fixed. flying in a temporarily abandoned park is somewhat acceptable. Flying a big machine where people are near is irresponsible and unacceptable, but it happens like it or not. RC plankers are dangerous because the plank is always in fast forward motion, but so is a golf or baseball or hockey puck when hit out of the play area.

I was thinking of that signage thing, to make four of them with "DANGER RC Chopper above" placing one at each corner of my flight area, everyone understands "CHOPPER" or could that be flying BLENDER

When you do a hurricane or funnel, isn't it similar to what a boomerang does? that could be deadly.

The guys in the videos, that's not how a person gets killed, be real.

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08-12-2012 01:47 PM  6 years agoPost 158
ShuRugal

rrKey Veteran

Killeen, TX

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There is the possibility of mechanical failure in everything around us. Airplanes flying over our heads, cars doing 40-50 mph while we are walking next to them on a side walk, etc.
Hehe, i was wondering when someone would bring this one up. You want to compare the danger represented to by a model heli to the one represented by full-scale aircraft? Well, then let us compare the sort of precautions taken to mitigate that damage.

A full scale aircraft gets:
  • Years of design work by degree-holding aeronautical engineers
  • Examination and approval by more degree-holding engineers (those employed by the FAA)
  • Critical components fitted to FAA specification
  • Routine inspection by FAA certified mechanics
  • Routine maintenance per so many flight hours by FAA certified mechanics
  • FAA mandated Routine replacement of critical components by FAA certified mechanics, whether the component needs replacing or not
  • FAA certified pilots
  • FAA-restricted flight paths over populated areas
What sort of maintenance regulation applies to model aircraft? What body of collected knowledge and experience sets standards for component quality and upkeep intervals? How are these standards enforced? The answers are None, Nobody, and They Aren't.

You claim the right to put the general public at risk with your models. When you do so, you open the door for the general public to demand assurances that the risk is marginalized. Those assurances will come in the form of external regulation, or banishment.

You an I both know that your model is safe, that the components it contains are top of the line, and that it regularly sees maintenance and inspection from someone experienced in the hobby. The problem is that John Q. Public has no way of knowing this.

What John Q. Public doesn't know will eventually scare him if he's given cause to think of it too often. Once he becomes scared, he will demand that his fears be satisfied. John Q. Public doesn't know you, and has no idea if you are qualified to speak for the airworthiness of your model, so you won't be able to satisfy him. He will then turn to his local government to satisfy his concern. His local government will respond by regulating where you are allowed to operate your models.

If we are to avoid this sort of scenario (and don't say it can't happen, because the FAA is debating this very issue as we speak) we, as a community, must grow up and start acting responsible. By flying in an area designated for public use and regularly used by the public, you present a danger to the public. The severity of that danger is irrelevant, it is the perception of that danger that will bring this hobby down.
isn't the idea of a heli killing someone way too hysterical. You'd be hit and killed by lightning before any rc heli could.
It has happened though:
http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/stor...child-in-brazil
https://rc.runryder.com/t70830p1/
https://rc.runryder.com/t169336p1/
Heli flyers are way too conscientious to allow their investment anywhere near hazards walking and/or fixed.
dozens of youtbe videos, including the one in the OP, prove this statement false.
RC plankers are dangerous because the plank is always in fast forward motion, but so is a golf or baseball or hockey puck when hit out of the play area.
and a helicopter's rotors are always turning at high RPM.
When you do a hurricane or funnel, isn't it similar to what a boomerang does? that could be deadly.
Not even slightly. The kinetic energy stored in a pair of 550mm blade weighing 100 grams rotating at 2,000 RPM is greater than that of a 9mm bullet. (you can check the math here and compare the numbers here. The rotor blades have a stored energy of 780 joules, which is roughly 500 lbf. Closer to what a .357 magnum outputs)

AMA 700159

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08-12-2012 02:25 PM  6 years agoPost 159
icanfly

rrElite Veteran

ontario

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shurugal, that is why STATISTICS are gathered and brought to the attention of policy makers. This is what affects their decision to enforce more or less prohibitive measures on any activity in public space.

A one to one aircraft weighs 2/300 tons and carries many lives when loaded, a rc heli, 2 or 3 lbs, miniscule and inconsequential by comparison. The proliference of rc things in public places is what is bringing rc to the attention of regulators.

There's a crossroad in the midwest that people were getting killed because the original engineers designed it badly. It was that way until the media got hold of the story and published the disturbing statistics of accidents there. Nothing was done until the media blew the horn loudly, same thing with tip-over suv's, but the media could pronounce a topic heading like "someone gets killed" about rc heli's and all hell would break loose.

The world is full of untold numbers of unseen hazards, rc heli the very least of them. Live long and prosper, fly wise, otherwise.

Just a few minutes ago I tore a small piece of my thumb on an unseen bit of rusty nail in a piece of scrap wood I was handling, I didn't see the nail = blood, ooch.

I stayed away from rc for most of my life because of lost signal and mechanical failure issues. Too expensive and unpredictable, someone could get hurt in the event of a failure.

I'm a mature over 40 adult with plenty of experience in life's hazards. That is what shapes my perception of deadly things. Just last weekend a guy went to the corner store on a bike and on the return he got caught in unused street rail tracks. He fell, his head was split open, and he died. I ride a bicycle on city streets regularly, way more dangerous than a heli. There are many times I could have been run over.

Regulators demand we take "precautions" for every ones sake.

Very good work ShuRu, btw, may I call you "SIR"?

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08-12-2012 03:15 PM  6 years agoPost 160
BobOD

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New York- USA

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Thank goodness we have effective laws and regulations in this country. Otherwise imagine all the mishaps we'd have.

Team POP Secret

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