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› Motor sizes increasing.
08-09-2012 08:38 PM  5 years agoPost 1
Richardmid1

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Leeds, England

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Whatever happened to running 4025 motors in 600's and 4035's in 700's??

Now its 4035's in 600's and 4525 or 4530's in 700's!

There must be a point where the extra weight reduces performance no matter how big the motor is?

Thanks to the FBL thing we no longer need high head speeds to get the cyclic and collective response we want.

Just thinking out loud but feel free to respond with your thoughts.

60% of the time, it works every time!

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08-09-2012 08:43 PM  5 years agoPost 2
USNAviationjay

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Houston Tx USA

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More power is always better.. and no the weights aren't even close to hurting us.
we still have insane power to weight ratios on Electrics.
and High headspeeds are more and more prevelant.
the new Goblin 630 likes to be spun at 2300-2400 and is a very large 600 needing that large motor to spin 630 blades.

Goblin 700 as well likes 2200+ and feels light as a feather in the air.

My Fusion also has a 4035-500 in it and there is no way I'd go down a size after having that kind of power and speed in a 600 class machine.

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08-09-2012 09:18 PM  5 years agoPost 3
Richardmid1

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Leeds, England

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If the power and weight numbers were decreased so the ratio stayed the same we would save a fortune in power systems and batteries!

What about a 4025 in a 700 and a single 6s 5000 pack at around 1500 rpm?

It would weigh around 850-900g less than a standard setup.

I can get 8 mins on a single 6s 5000 pack in my 700 using the stock motor at 1100 rpm. I think you would easily get 5 mins at 1500 rpm with the smaller 4025 motor therefore you would get 4 mins (typical 3D flight time) using a single 6s 4000mah pack saving a further 150g, thats 1kg (2.2lbs) saved!

Might try it.

60% of the time, it works every time!

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08-09-2012 09:37 PM  5 years agoPost 4
Solmanbandit

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Tucson , AZ

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I can tell that you don't do hard 3D. If you did, you would not be talking about those low rpm's. It isn't just about saving weight, you also increase the torque big time. There is a far less chance of bogging your head down when you have more power. I am using the same motor on my 600, but went from a 6s to 8s and the power difference is amazing. Yes, I added 3 oz to it, but it is so worth it and it doesn't bog down like it it did before. My problem wasn't collective management either, I would do basic flips and was having issues. I have to admit that some seem to be using more power to offset using collective management skills though.

Trex 700E / Trex 500 ESP - Ikon/ HD 500 - Ikon 2/ Goblin 500 Ikon 2

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08-09-2012 10:25 PM  5 years agoPost 5
USNAviationjay

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Houston Tx USA

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Yup that is not performance.. that is that same crud we started electric with a few years ago..
I can cripple my birds as well and fly like a scale ship for half an hour.. but what fun is that?

you will not be winning any speedcup or 3d or anything else with that setup..
Sorry Richard.
Horsepower is king and 12S and bigger is the new standard.

and I personally wouldn't have it any other way..

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08-09-2012 10:40 PM  5 years agoPost 6
Richardmid1

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Leeds, England

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Speedcup yes but 3d competition does not require all that power.

60% of the time, it works every time!

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08-09-2012 10:46 PM  5 years agoPost 7
USNAviationjay

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Houston Tx USA

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I beg to differ.. you can't do even weak old school 3d on 1500 RPM..
on 6S.. that would be a dog on the level of the old first 600Es.. even worse at that headspeed.
no torque no pop and no speed.

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08-09-2012 10:52 PM  5 years agoPost 8
Solmanbandit

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Tucson , AZ

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3D can be done at a low headspeed, but you have to be really smooth. Here is an 800 doing 3D at 14 rpm.

Watch at YouTube

Trex 700E / Trex 500 ESP - Ikon/ HD 500 - Ikon 2/ Goblin 500 Ikon 2

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08-09-2012 10:57 PM  5 years agoPost 9
USNAviationjay

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Houston Tx USA

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BUT he is still 12S or larger..powered and geared for the torque + with an 800 you are on bigger blades so max headspeed requirement goes down as well.

Richard's argument is to take us back to the stone age of E RC and go back 6S and small motor and go for endurance..

until 6S lipos can pack the same amount of Punch a 12+S setup can. that idea will never work.

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08-09-2012 11:23 PM  5 years agoPost 10
JKos

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Redondo Beach, CA

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> back to the stone age of E RC

Dude, the stone age was NiCd batteries! Certainly not 6S LiPo.

> that would be a dog on the level of the old first 600Es

Something very interesting that I've seen change is the acceptance of short flight times. Back when the first 600E came out, everyone said they would never accept 3 and 4 minutes flight times. That was just plain unacceptable and they would never go electric because of it. Now look where we are...

Not everyone needs to be turning 2000+ RPM. It is a total waste of power for the majority of fliers. I bet the ratio of non-hard 3D flyers to hard+ 3D flyers is a LOT higher than a forum such as RR would seem to indicate.

- John

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08-10-2012 01:02 AM  5 years agoPost 11
Solmanbandit

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Tucson , AZ

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Not everyone needs to be turning 2000+ RPM. It is a total waste of power for the majority of fliers.
I don't do hardcore 3D, but I do enjoy the higher headspeed and power. It is better to have too much power than not enough. That is the reason why I went to 8s from 6s. One thing that you have to remember is that a lot of the motors are going with a lower KV. To get sufficient power with a lower KV motor, you have to go with a larger cell count. One other aspect to remember too is that 12s system is going to draw less amps than a 6s system. As a direct comparison, look at the 600E and the 600 EFL Pro. The 600 with a 6s requires a 100 amp ESC. The EFL uses a 12s setup and 80A ESC. So going smaller isn't always an advantage.
Brand new 600 class 12S high voltage brushless motor providing generous torque and power output, yet consumes lower average current to prolong the life of batteries.

Trex 700E / Trex 500 ESP - Ikon/ HD 500 - Ikon 2/ Goblin 500 Ikon 2

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08-10-2012 04:56 AM  5 years agoPost 12
USNAviationjay

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Houston Tx USA

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I'm no 3D hotshot either... I'm a big air speed junky.
but that power is amazing to have.. and BTW I get 6 mins even at 2200 on my Goblin 700 going balls out..

same on my Fusion with 6s 3700s x2

plenty of flight time..

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08-10-2012 07:57 AM  5 years agoPost 13
Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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I get 3.5 mins on my goblin at 2200!

The logo xxtreme at 1400 video is still impressive and the setup I'm talking about would be at 1500 and 5lbs lighter!

60% of the time, it works every time!

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08-10-2012 08:03 AM  5 years agoPost 14
Solmanbandit

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Tucson , AZ

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I get 3.5 mins on my goblin at 2200!
To be honest, that doesn't mean much when you don't give details like which goblin, what size packs, cells...?

Trex 700E / Trex 500 ESP - Ikon/ HD 500 - Ikon 2/ Goblin 500 Ikon 2

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08-10-2012 08:06 AM  5 years agoPost 15
Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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700 with 700mx and 5000 packs.

60% of the time, it works every time!

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08-10-2012 07:36 PM  5 years agoPost 16
Solmanbandit

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Tucson , AZ

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That seems like an awful short flight time. How many volts is each cell when you are done and what pinion are you using?

Trex 700E / Trex 500 ESP - Ikon/ HD 500 - Ikon 2/ Goblin 500 Ikon 2

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08-10-2012 07:57 PM  5 years agoPost 17
Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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Stock 22T pully. Packs have around 25% left.

60% of the time, it works every time!

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08-11-2012 12:04 AM  5 years agoPost 18
Solmanbandit

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Tucson , AZ

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I can't seem to figure out the math for the goblin. Too many gears!!!

I can see why you may want less if you are getting only 3.5 minutes flight time. I just don't see why your flight times would be so short. You should be getting at least 5 minutes.

Trex 700E / Trex 500 ESP - Ikon/ HD 500 - Ikon 2/ Goblin 500 Ikon 2

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08-11-2012 12:16 AM  5 years agoPost 19
USNAviationjay

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Houston Tx USA

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something is very wrong with your setup or something..
my Quantum 4530-500 sips power compared to that..

6 mins easy at 2200 hard sport flying with balls out speed runs.

you using telemetry?

Hell my friend can get 8 mins depending on how he flies his Goblin watching his telemetry instead of going by the timer.

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08-11-2012 07:55 AM  5 years agoPost 20
Richardmid1

rrProfessor

Leeds, England

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3.5 mins is a pretty standard hard 3d flight time especially on a goblin at 2200, the goblin is quite power hungry! Same setup on my trex 700e and I get 10-20 seconds more, different esc though so that could be it.

60% of the time, it works every time!

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