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Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterAerial Photography and Video › ESC quit in flight
07-30-2012 08:21 PM  9 years ago
chris24g

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Hayward, CA

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Not well deserved but an important lesson.

A good ESC is the cheapest insurance you can buy. Put on the kontronik and never worry about it again.
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08-06-2012 07:09 PM  9 years ago
Helicek

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istanbul - turkey

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I think I know what caused this unexpected cut-off and I want to share it with you fellow APers.

This ESC does not like spinning too slow. The standard gearing on the t-rex F3C (12x112) is too low for 470kv motor for my intended main rotor revolution which is under 1300rpm.

motor=470kv
gearing=12x112 (9,33)
battery Voltage=44.40v

Parameter Governor Low won't setup at all for these values .
Parameter Governor High =1,425rpm at 40.7% throttle (lowest possible)

To get it going I went with "governor simple". There I was able to dial in a very slow 1,250rpm. By doing so I must have ignored the typicall limits. The esc worked for a while and then cut-off.

I got all the necessary spares and I am on the rebuild. I have decided to go with the M0.7 164teeth main gear and a 16teeth pinion which will give a ratio of 10,25. I have a 15teeth pinion but it won't mesh properly

I will go with the Jive 80 though.
It is a pity that Align does not offer any other pinion/main gear options for this kit. But may be later.

Yes a 300kv / 350kv motor would suit better, but then we need to find one with an extended shaft.
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08-06-2012 09:01 PM  9 years ago
Stephen Born

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USA

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Yes a 300kv / 350kv motor would suit better, but then we need to find one with an extended shaft.
What motor? Shaft size?
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08-07-2012 02:54 PM  9 years ago
Helicek

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istanbul - turkey

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XERA 4035/3Y-400
rpm/v = 400
shaft = 20mm / Ø6mm
connectors = bullet / female

Align RCM-BL700MX
rpm/v = 470
shaft = 34mm / Ø6mm
connectors = bullet / male

Kontronik Jive 80
connectors = bullet / male

What is the convention with bullet connectors?
If I want to use Jive 80 with BL700MX which of the connectors should I change?
I feel the esc should have female connectors and motors male ones.

AerialSkyCam
I need a motor like the Align RCM-BL700MX with 34mm / Ø6mm shaft. I wish Align made a 350rpm/v motor.

Ahmet
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08-07-2012 03:00 PM  9 years ago
Stephen Born

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USA

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AerialSkyCam

I need a motor like the Align RCM-BL700MX with 34mm / Ø6mm shaft. I wish Align made a 350rpm/v motor.
I have the same motor. I replaced the shaft with a 6mm. Using a Mod 1 11t pinion. I know someone who can assist you in locating a shaft to your liking.
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08-07-2012 05:52 PM  9 years ago
GauchoVolador

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Tx

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Hey Ahmet,
I discourage you in going down to .7 Module since this is too weak for a heavy AP bird, go back to Module 1.
Your Xera 400Kv motor with the stock Align 112/12 gearing will work perfectly for your target HS.
Xera sells longer 6mm shafts for your motor, contact them.
Just an observation, not completely recommended but we flew Xeras like yours on our heavy copters using the short 6mm shaft (without third bearing support) and it held really well, then we switched all for the longest shaft and third bearing for security but we used them on the short one without damaging bearings/bending shaft or any other problems.
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08-08-2012 03:19 PM  9 years ago
Helicek

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istanbul - turkey

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Hi Gaucho,
I discourage you in going down to .7 Module since this is too weak for a heavy AP bird, go back to Module 1.
I have had the previous trex 700 AP heli with 180cm main rotor with xera motor and mod 0.7 16 x 164 pinion and main gear. I did not have gears slipping but you are right about modulus 1 being the right choice for this.
Your Xera 400Kv motor with the stock Align 112/12 gearing will work perfectly for your target HS.
Primarily it is the esc I am worried about, not the motor. ESCs do not like low throttle curve. They are happy with 75% and higher.

I will check long shaft possibilities. Thanks for your valuable input.

It is so damn hot and humid here in Istanbul.
Can't work!

Ahmet
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08-09-2012 07:29 PM  9 years ago
GauchoVolador

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Hey Ahmet,
Pretty humid down here in Buenos Aires too, two weeks in a row with no stopping rains!
Primarily it is the esc I am worried about, not the motor. ESCs do not like low throttle curve. They are happy with 75% and higher.
I meant: Xera 400Kv + stock 112/12 @ 1300RPM your HV120 ESC will be at around 80%

Best!
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02-25-2013 11:33 AM  8 years ago
Helicek

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istanbul - turkey

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Hi All,
let me tell you how it goes with my setup.
With ICE 120-HV-II on 12S, Xera 400rpmv and 80% throtle on 112x12 gearing it has worked out well. I have not experienced another ESC cut off. My flying is hovering for stills, I have not measured it but motor and ESC feels hot (to the touch) immediately after landing.
During hover it consumes between 21 and 23 amps and a little higher during ascent. Current draw falls down to 18 amps in forward flight.
So, it had been an ill set-up on my part that had caused the ICE esc to cut-off. I am happy with it now. (Touch wood).

I am trying to work out a way to increase the gearing ratio on my t-rex F3C 800 AP ship so that I can experiment with other brushless motors (BL-700MX (470rpmv) and the HP 370/40 (500rpmv)) I already have.
Goblin helis are very good that gearing ratio is adjustable. It offers motor pinions (both for 6mm and 8mm shafts) ranging from 18T to 24T that can suit different combinations.

Good luck,
Ahmet
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02-25-2013 01:09 PM  8 years ago
Stephen Born

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USA

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With ICE 120-HV-II on 12S, Xera 400rpmv and 80% throtle on 112x12 gearing it has worked out well. I have not experienced another ESC cut off. My flying is hovering for stills, I have not measured it but motor and ESC feels hot (to the touch) immediately after landing.
A Xera with a Kontronik 120 Jive or Kontronik Power Jazz are great in AP ships, especially when accompanied with an Xera motor. I can fly for 11 minutes and the ESC's are cool to the touch.
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02-26-2013 09:32 AM  8 years ago
Helicek

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istanbul - turkey

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Hi,
here is a mock up of a typicall installation for additional motor to main gear reduction. Let me know what do you think of this?
Ahmet
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05-01-2013 12:04 PM  8 years ago
Helicek

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istanbul - turkey

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Hi again,
after almost a year later of uneventful flying, my ICE2HV120 quit once again while hovering in GPS ATTI mode under the control of ACEONE, yesterday. Heli came down flat and hit the ground. The mount, the dslr, the lens and the main structure were damaged badly. I am not going to use this ESC again. (I should have got rid of it the first time it happened)

When taking off in GPS ATTI mode heli jumps up in to the air no matter how smooth I feed in collective. When it does, I read 50.0amps on telemetry (which normally is around 20.00amps).

Is lifting off in GPS ATTI mode a bad idea?

Can you help me with this?

Thanks,
Ahmet
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05-01-2013 12:53 PM  8 years ago
Stephen Born

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USA

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after almost a year later of uneventful flying, my ICE2HV120 quit once again while hovering in GPS ATTI mode under the control of ACEONE, yesterday. Heli came down flat and hit the ground. The mount, the dslr, the lens and the main structure were damaged badly. I am not going to use this ESC again. (I should have got rid of it the first time it happened)
As stated by many earlier in this thread, use the Kontronik product.
chris24g
Not well deserved but an important lesson.
A good ESC is the cheapest insurance you can buy. Put on the kontronik and never worry about it again.
46Taylorcraft
Ditch that Castle and get a Kontronik Jive 80+ HV and be done with it.
classic
Dump the Castle.
Never had an issue with my Kontronics.
AerialSkyCam
A Xera with a Kontronik 120 Jive or Kontronik Power Jazz are great in AP ships
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05-01-2013 03:06 PM  8 years ago
Helicek

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istanbul - turkey

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When taking off in GPS ATTI mode heli jumps up in to the air no matter how smooth I feed in collective. When it does, I read 50.0amps on telemetry (which normally is around 20.00amps).

Is lifting off in GPS ATTI mode a bad idea?

Ahmet
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05-03-2013 10:10 AM  8 years ago
JoeB1

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Ireland, Wicklow

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I would not buy a Kontronik. It's just another over prised german product. Actualy I would not buy anything electronic from Germany. Nearly all their stuff is made in poorer countries, shipped to germany, and a label stuck on. I work on the electronics on cars and motorbikes and the german stuff is rubbish. Kontronik fail too just read up on it but some feel better paying more. It was not that long ago everyone said CC was the best.
I have a 700 AP rig with HK SK3 480 motor ( about 70 dollars )and their YEP 120 HV ( about 80 dollars ) and they both run great. ESC is stone cold after 10 mins and motor warm.
Remember nearly all electronics are made in China!
It's your money do what you want!
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05-03-2013 10:10 PM  8 years ago
~>Miha<~

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Germany

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So the entire world is dumb and buys just re-labeled stuff that you can all get much cheaper on Alibaba? Hohoho, you should become consultant. What's next in "JoeB1's world economy for dummies"?
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05-03-2013 11:09 PM  8 years ago
JoeB1

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Ireland, Wicklow

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First of...
I stated my opinion.....and ended on a note to make the guys own mind up.
Secondly...
I never said the world is dumb. That's your words not mine.
And thirdly.....
you mention "economy for dummies"...and you are from Italy where you put yourselves into large dept and get large loans from Germany , and while you try and pay it back they buy up your biggest earners....lamborghini and Ducati to mention a few.
Economic dummies says you lol.....
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06-29-2013 04:58 PM  8 years ago
Helicek

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istanbul - turkey

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secondary reduction

This works. I played with different combination of pulleys and belts. I aimed to get a steady a hover at 1,250 main rotor rpm, at approximately +6° of pitch around 80% throttle. On 12S total reduction was 16.3 to 1.

Ahmet
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06-30-2013 02:59 PM  8 years ago
Eco8gator

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Palm Beach, FL

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You don't use a lower grade ESC's on an expensive camera platform!

BTW, this sounds like user error...the fire ball has not happened yet. You need to disable auto lipo on the Castle and select custom...just set the voltage to 4V. Also you can completely disable the current limit...voids your warranty but technically when it explodes regardless of setting you just voided your heli warranty

Take that ESC out and put it in a toy and get a big boy ESC for your heli.

C
Xera Motors
ProBar
Minicopter
Thunder Power
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