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07-23-2012 11:48 AM 8 years ago
 Propwash3D
rrApprentice ohio great lakes |
Piro flips all over the place Hey guys im getting into piro flips...actually been working on them for about a month vigorously...sometimes my time is on and soimetimes it not...in the simulator i can keep it pretty stable and in one place. at the feild its a differnt story..its everywhere..iv watched vids on line watched the smack talk vids..how agressive shou8ld your stir be..if i just peg the sticks it dont work for me..i almosy have to be very diligent watch the heli and then do my inoputs...any techniques you guys recoment when to cue on the stick..if the tail is directly twoards you where should ur cyclic sticks be..im getting frustrated..i know practice practice practe..but i almost feel i have been practicing the wrong thing |
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07-23-2012 12:07 PM 8 years ago
 Darren Lee
rrElite Veteran Woodstock, GA |
Maybe you should watch the Smacktalk episode again. Bert does a great job of answering all your questions.  For a standard piroflip with the disc rotating away from yourself, the cyclic stick should be at 12 o'clock when upright tail-in and inverted nose-in.Team Synergy / Rail Blades / Morgan Fuel |
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07-23-2012 12:18 PM 8 years ago
 wrongler
rrProfessor Brewerton, New York |
I have been practicing them for a bit longer than that and still can't keep the Heli in one spot, Timing is everything! Its getting better but, I think it has something to do with natural ability, coordination, eyesight and age!
Good Luck and stick with it. Bill Whittaker |
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07-23-2012 01:35 PM 8 years ago
| KevinB
rrKey Veteran Earth |
I still have not mastered them either, but I've made progress. One thing I've found is that the "timing" is important when you are first learning to do them, but for fine tuning the piroflip, you can't rely on it. Keep the piro rate slower to start with and fly through the manoeuver. Until you can make corrections mid-piroflip, you can't get them locked in place except by accident.One thing that seemed to really help this was learning a piro hurricane. That took hours of sim time but it really gets you used to making those little corrections when the heli is travelling in different orientations. It was while learning this other move that I actually began to see and be able to correct when the piroflip started to move off base and bring it back before it got too out of shape.Don't know if this will work for you, but it certainly helped with mine. Good luck!KevinB |
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07-23-2012 04:12 PM 8 years ago
| holzback
rrKey Veteran noblesville IN United States |
It is all about pitch control to keep it in one spot. The least amount of pitch the betteryou aint crashin you aint learnin |
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07-23-2012 04:19 PM 8 years ago
| Rogman88
rrElite Veteran West Monroe, LA |
One thing that seemed to really help this was learning a piro hurricane. |
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07-23-2012 04:23 PM 8 years ago
| Propwash3D
rrApprentice ohio great lakes |
piro hurrican can u point me in a direction of a piro huricane? any vidoes. sounds complicated...complet piro flips while hurricaning or pirrotts? |
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07-23-2012 05:02 PM 8 years ago
| marc8090
rrElite Veteran Long Island, N.Y. |
It's a hurricane while pirouetting only, no flips. |
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07-23-2012 05:44 PM 8 years ago
 OICU812
rrMaster Grande Prairie, Alberta, Canada |
If you can keep it normal and inverted in one spot while doing piros "level" all of what's said is for sure correct. If not then ensure before the (flip) part that you have that control to maintain one position both normal and inverted with various speed piros. Timing alone is not enough, total orientation is required to correct and adapt to the speed of the piro to keep the piroflip in one mass position....Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins... |
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07-23-2012 06:52 PM 8 years ago
| rudyy
rrElite Veteran E. Amherst, NY |
Me too, I am also learning full piro flip, but I realize it will be a long long way to go (in months or maybe over a year!!) to make it look perfect.The way I practise is that once I flip it, I try to level the heli as quickly as possible before triggering another flip. So, right now, I end up having a couple of pirohovering and then a flip and then a couple of pirohovering, and so on.I find out that if I do not level the heli first, but just stir the cyclic stick, the heli will be all over the place. |
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07-23-2012 07:16 PM 8 years ago
 BladeStrikes
rrElite Veteran Shelby TWP,Mi |
Before even trying piro flips,you need to learn these moves first inverted and upright --->Piro in one spot..
Piro while moving around and pick a spot to stop the heli while its still piroing.
Do piroing circles
Piro left/right in a stright line
Piro front/back in a stright lineLearning stuff like that is like learning the basics in hovering before trying forward flight.You can't skip the basics or it will look like crap or you'll for-sure soon crash.The awesome part about learning the basics is it opens doors to other moves like these---->Piroing loops
Piroing rainbows
Piroing tictocsTook me under a year to learn all that stuff and im doing it with my real heli (still working with piroing rainbows/tictocs but can do them)..Takes ALOT of time and work but for sure pays off in the long run as long as you don't skip basics..
Learning that stuff also helps if the tail fails |
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07-23-2012 07:23 PM 8 years ago
| OICU812
rrMaster Grande Prairie, Alberta, Canada |
Exactly correct Lon. Far too many people skip those steps just wanting to do the maneuver not realizing the lost costs and benefits....Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins... |
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07-24-2012 02:57 AM 8 years ago
| Stephen Born
rrElite Veteran USA |
Right Lon. Each technique leads to the next. Don't skip on the learning curve. |
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07-24-2012 03:07 AM 8 years ago
| KevinB
rrKey Veteran Earth |
Thanks for the ideas guys.When I went back and analyzed what I was doing, I was making all my leveling corrections approaching right side up level, and just "riding through" the inverted level point in my piroflips..... which weren't always really level. I am able to do very controlled upright piros and move the heli to specific points, but when I tried the same thing inverted, I sucked !! So, back to the basics on my inverted flying. Funny things is, in an inverted piro-hurricane, I don't seem to have a problem. Go figure. I guess in fast flight, you are eliminating one of the possible axis that needs correction so it's easier???Once I get my inverted stationary piros fixed, I'll be able to correct my piroflips twice as often and that should improve the stationary aspect a lot. Excellent!KevinB |
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07-24-2012 04:40 AM 8 years ago
 TMoore
rrMaster Cookeville, TN |
Here's a tip for y'all; When you do the piroflip use just a little collective and then add the cyclic as needed to get the machine to flip from upright to inverted and back. Vary the piro rate so you can learn to vary the stir and this is the trick that will help you a lot; when you flip from upright to inverted make sure you use just enough cyclic to flatten the disk and once the disk is flat and the heli is pirouetting you can keep the stir in time by using what I call a "faux stir", IOW you keep on stirring the stick but the heli doesn't actually flip until you want to flip it back to upright. Your thumb is actually stirring but you don't move the helicopter because you are just stirring in your head and thumb muscle to maintain the timing with the pirouette. By doing this over time you will learn to steer the heli while it is pirouetting and you can then move the heli around as you gain experience. If you don't vary the piro rate the maneuver will become mechanical and that's what you don't want.It also helps when you are stirring if you feel all side of the gimbal as you stir the stick. If you don't feel all sides of the gimbal the piro flip will look like it's out of whack as the disk is flipping and you won't be able to get the heli to stay put.If this stuff were easy, we could all be doing it but it's not and it takes practice. I've been practicing this one maneuver for 3 years and I still make progress every time I go to fly. BTW, pirouetting in one direction will limit your progression. Do the piro in both directions no matter how much it throws you back in the short term. With a little practice you won't notice which direction you were favoring.TMPart 107.
The only ZERO flight hour certificate in the world.
It's like getting a driver's license without the driver's test. |
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07-25-2012 04:34 AM 8 years ago
| helixangle
rrKey Veteran Mamaroneck, NY - USA |
practice at the field with a lower HS, helps with learning the timingBe sure the juice is worth the sqweeze
Remember life is hard...even harder for stupid people |
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07-30-2012 03:00 AM 8 years ago
| rudyy
rrElite Veteran E. Amherst, NY |
I know by the time if I can perform piro hovering and travelling both right side up and up side down without the need to think about it, then I am ready for the full piro flip. It is just like learning stationary hovering. |
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