RunRyder RC
WATCH
 13 pages [ <<    <     6      7     ( 8 )     9      10     NEXT    >> ] 29913 views POST REPLY
HomeRC & Power✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterEngines Plugs Mufflers Fuel › os 55 Magnum Center-Glide Bearing System
04-03-2013 05:22 PM  6 years ago
MikeSherman

rrVeteran

Racine, WI

MyPosts All Forum Topic
I'm hoping that there's some sort of "breakin" time with this bearing.
My engine(s) took a few tanks running rich to keep the temperature down. I just treated it like a break-in with a new piston ring...run rich for a few tanks while monitoring temp and begin leaning out as necessary.

I can only speak to running OS engines.

-Mike
Team QuickUK Pilot
Team Heliproz
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
04-03-2013 05:52 PM  6 years ago
jbjones

rrVeteran

Columbus, Mississippi

MyPosts All Forum Topic
MikeSherman My engine(s) took a few tanks running rich to keep the temperature down.
Good to know, Mike, thank you. Mine starts really, really rich...then as it hovers, it starts leaning like crazy. I can barely hover for 5 seconds, for fear of popping it. I'm not sacrificing a brand new engine. Hopefully, it'll clear up.

Cheers Mike, thanks.

-Joey
J. B. Jones
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
04-03-2013 06:18 PM  6 years ago
wjvail

rrKey Veteran

Meridian, Mississippi

MyPosts All Forum Topic
I should begin with saying I'm not ready to say it was the installation of a Center Glide bearing that has caused the troubles I've had. It's a complex hobby and I don't have the resources of NASA to trouble shoot problems.

I've now had two OS HZ-R engines converted to Center Glide Bearings (CGB)and both have given me considerable trouble since getting them modified. One was a .55 and the other a .91. The .55 was first and the .91 several months later.

Things I know:
-- Both engines were well known to me. Both had 10+ hours on them.
-- Both were running well when I sent them in. The first engine needed a rear bearing. The other didn't.
-- Both engines were R&Red (Removed and Replaced) in the same heli they started in.
-- Same fuel and plug before and after. Same tank, clunk, and fuel lines.
-- The only bits I sent in were the Crank and Crankshaft. Everything else sat on my bench until the engine was reassembled and re-installed in the heli.

After being returned:
-- Both engines seemed to run very lean with the settings I had been using. In the case of the .91 the engine was lean to the point it wouldn't spool up into a hover. The .55 was lean to the point it shut down in flight.
-- The .55 idled extremely poorly after being converted but has improved.
-- Shortly after conversion, the .55 leaned out and died in flight resulting in a poor auto and boom strike.
-- The .55 has improved with more running and after a few gallons, is reliable and powerful but still does not settle into a nice idle.
-- The .91 (the second engine converted and the engine with the least run time) has been extremely inconsistent in its needle settings. Before conversion the engine ran with the main needle at around 1 and 5/8th. After conversion that was too lean to even spool up. In order to hover, the needle had to be backed out to almost 3 turns. Now, after much more running, the needles are getting back to something close to where they were before the CGB conversion.
-- The .91 has shut down numerous times in flight resulting in some spectacular saves and also a dodgy auto that cost a boom and blades.
-- Both engines needed a new plug shortly after being converted. Whether that was the result of being run lean or the result of the SGB breaking in I don't know.

So... I've now had two well know engines converted and both have had numerous unplanned autos. Both helis have had the boom knocked off.

Both engines are running better over time but it has taken much more than a "few tanks" to get there.

Interestingly, I think I will end up liking the conversion. Once I get it sorted, it has the potential to be powerful, quiet and low/no maintenance... but getting there has not been a smooth road - for me.

I will end the same way I began. I'm not certain where the cause of my troubles lies. I am certain I've had reliability issues. Those trouble began after R&Ring the motor to install a SGB but it is too early to say it is the SGB that is causing the trouble.

I think there is enough to say be very cautious after having an engine converted.

Bill
"Well, nothing bad can happen now."
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
04-03-2013 06:26 PM  6 years ago
wjvail

rrKey Veteran

Meridian, Mississippi

MyPosts All Forum Topic
Are you saying that both engines have caused you difficulties after converting to centerglide, or that the stock bearings caused issues, thus leading you to centerglide?
The bearing in the pictures from my previous post came out of an engine that has not been converted to SGB. It was ball bearing and still is. It was running well, if not loud, and is still running well.

The two engines I've had converted to SGB were running well before being converted (if not loud). After conversion, the .55 is finally running well and the .91 is getting better but since its last flight resulted in an auto and boom strike, I'm not ready to say I trust it.

The point of my earlier post was to suggest that even if there are difficulties after converting to a SG Bearing, it may be worth the effort. The bearing pictured earlier is proof of that.

Bill
"Well, nothing bad can happen now."
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
04-03-2013 07:30 PM  6 years ago
GScott

rrElite Veteran

Lewis Center, OH

MyPosts All Forum Topic
I'm wondering if a change was made recently. When I had my first one done on my .91 HZ-R last summer the engine ran the same as it did before the CG install. Based on my experience a friend had his OS 55HZR done last October/November. His experience mirrors the most recent posts. At first the engine wouldn't start at anything less than 1/3-1/2 stick and would die spooling up. We richened it up to almost 3 turns and finally could get it to hover. Still wouldn't start until almost 1/2 stick. It gradually improved and after 1/2 gallon started normally and we were able to lean it back to where it should be.

I then sent in my YS60 and it has been nothing but trouble. My experience was just like my friend's except I had to richen the mid to 4 turns to even get it started and it got hot just idling. After about a 1/2 gallon it starts normally but tunes like crap. It has died multiple times in flight for no reason and eats plugs like crazy. I am at the point now where I am considering going back to a normal bearing but don't know if this thing will come out by just heating the crank case.
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
04-03-2013 07:34 PM  6 years ago
Tag1260

rrApprentice

Ohio USA

MyPosts All Forum Topic
Has anyone contacted Magnum about this problem? What do they have to say about it?
Might be worth a try. I was going to send my YS50 and OS37 in to have them done but am now a little reluctant after hearing all of this.
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
04-03-2013 08:18 PM  6 years ago
jbjones

rrVeteran

Columbus, Mississippi

MyPosts All Forum Topic
GScott I'm wondering if a change was made recently.
My problem wouldn't be recent. I had my motor done approx 1.5 years ago. After wadding up my Stratus last spring, I took the rest of last season off. So, my engine does not have a "newer" CGB in it. If it even matters.

The motor had zero time on it when it went in for the bearing. From the first flight, it would experience this behavior. I quit messing with it after 3/4 tank. In FEB, this year, I started trying to get to the bottom of it so I could fly it this season. Same behavior. I sent it to YS, just to make sure it's not defective.
Tag1260 Has anyone contacted Magnum about this problem?
I haven't. Like Bill, I'd rather eliminate everything but the bearing first. Buzz is a good guy, and I don't want to falsely point a finger at him.

-JB
J. B. Jones
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
04-03-2013 09:01 PM  6 years ago
Tyler

rrElite Veteran

Chicagoland area

MyPosts All Forum Topic
For conideration, in the past I have owned multiple YS engines that suddenly wouldnt tune or run properly, often causing me to pull out my hair in ongoing frustration, all without the bearings in the equation. They simply became problematic. Regulated systems can do this at times. I went back to simple carbs.

Im not saying the cgb isnt at fault in thesecases, but these sound exactly like my previous headaches with ys long before the cgb was offered.
Enjoy things that money can buy IF you don't lose the things money can't buy.
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
04-03-2013 09:18 PM  6 years ago
jbjones

rrVeteran

Columbus, Mississippi

MyPosts All Forum Topic
Minus a diaphragm issue with a YS .45 airplane engine about 23 years ago, I haven't had any issues like that with several YS heli engines.

I have considered it, and it's a good point, so thanks for the input.

The motor did come back from YS with a clean bill. I have a few notes that I'm keeping to myself at the moment. I haven't run the engine since it came back. I've temporarily replaced it with something that I don't have to worry about. I'll get around to testing with it later as I get time.

-JB
J. B. Jones
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
04-03-2013 09:39 PM  6 years ago
Tyler

rrElite Veteran

Chicagoland area

MyPosts All Forum Topic
As another friendly comment, I had two of those problematic yS engines return from YS with a clean bill of health and nothing found wrong with them. Well, myself and several other pilots could never get them to run correctly. We moved on. Additionally, i have experienced diaphram issues that could be fixed. Not all of my ys engines had problems. My best engine to date was a ys 120 fz four stroker. Awesome engine.Enjoy things that money can buy IF you don't lose the things money can't buy.
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
04-03-2013 09:40 PM  6 years ago
Tyler

rrElite Veteran

Chicagoland area

MyPosts All Forum Topic
I believe Buzz had some ys conversion options to use a regular carb on the YS engines, now that I think about it. Did anyone else see this at Ircha?Enjoy things that money can buy IF you don't lose the things money can't buy.
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
04-03-2013 09:46 PM  6 years ago
MikeSherman

rrVeteran

Racine, WI

MyPosts All Forum Topic
Did anyone else see this at Ircha?
Yep - saw that too. Since I am an OS guy, I didn't look twice. I do remember an adapter block perhaps....could be wrong but I do remember seeing a red anodized "thingy" which made it all possible.

-Mike
Team QuickUK Pilot
Team Heliproz
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
04-04-2013 01:27 AM  6 years ago
GScott

rrElite Veteran

Lewis Center, OH

MyPosts All Forum Topic
I'm using the Magnum adaptor on my YS60. I've used the stock YS carb, an OS 91 HZR carb, and an OS 91HZ carb (the adaptor requires a 91 carb). All with the same results. This leads me to believe it's an issue with the center glide. If I had to guess I would say the bearing is just a hair too big and causing drag. This seems to be confirmed by the black oil inside the crankcase. The type you see from metal to metal rubbing. Personally I don't have time to deal with it any longer. Starting a 2 year physician assistant program next months means my flying needs to count for the next month.
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
04-04-2013 01:56 AM  6 years ago
jbjones

rrVeteran

Columbus, Mississippi

MyPosts All Forum Topic
GScott, check your backplate. See if the crankpin is rubbing it. My motor had less than 1 tank on it, sent to YS. Rich said it is excessively rubbing the backplate. I would love to hear/see if yours the same.

-JB
J. B. Jones
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
04-04-2013 01:05 PM  6 years ago
Tyler

rrElite Veteran

Chicagoland area

MyPosts All Forum Topic
All my YS's mentioneddid rub the backplate significantly.Enjoy things that money can buy IF you don't lose the things money can't buy.
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
04-04-2013 02:26 PM  6 years ago
GScott

rrElite Veteran

Lewis Center, OH

MyPosts All Forum Topic
Mine did have signs of rubbing the back plate but I cannot say if it was there before the CG was installed. I have completely disassembled the motor and I did notice a small gap between the front of the bushing and the crankcase. Not sure if that is normal or not.
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
04-04-2013 03:16 PM  6 years ago
DS 8717

rrProfessor

Here wishing i was somewhere else

MyPosts All Forum Topic
All my YS's mentioneddid rub the backplate significantly
This why they put a hard steel liner on the backplate.it helps reduce friction.Its not the crankpin that rubs the backplate its the connecting rod.....The front bearing keeps the crank from moving backward....The crank should not rub against the back of the bushing,there should be a small gap between the bushing and the back of the crank. The rod rubs against the back plate on almost all the engines....
YOU ONLY LIVE ONCE..IF YOU LIVE IT RIGHT THATS ALL YOU NEED
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
04-04-2013 03:39 PM  6 years ago
Tyler

rrElite Veteran

Chicagoland area

MyPosts All Forum Topic
Yes, agreed. But, the con rods rubbed more than any other engines in my fleet for 17 years. All with stock rear bearings.Enjoy things that money can buy IF you don't lose the things money can't buy.
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
04-06-2013 12:13 AM  6 years ago
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

MyPosts All Forum Topic
Check the bearing oil holes, they should be horizontal in the crankcase and let us know what you find.

For the folks that are having difficulties, why aren't y'all calling Buzz and asking him what's going on? I would send the complete engine back and I'm sure he'll check them out. If there is a problem I'm sure that Buzz can test run the engine on one of his birds.

There are over 300 of these setups out here.....
Delayed Response Operator Not Engaged
AMA SECTION 336 = Gone, replaced by the FAA
Drones = EVIL
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
04-06-2013 02:50 AM  6 years ago
wjvail

rrKey Veteran

Meridian, Mississippi

MyPosts All Forum Topic
For the folks that are having difficulties, why aren't y'all calling Buzz and asking him what's going on?
The reason I personally haven't called Buzz is that I'm not ready to say Buzz and the SGB have an issue. The only thing I'm personally sure of is that both of my once reliable engines are not behaving as they did before installing a bushing. It is beyond me why they are not running well. I really can't say why they are behaving the way they are. Since I've been running model engines for more than 40 years and model helicopters for almost 30, it's not easy for me to admit I don't know why my engines are running the way they are.

My personal reason for posting was to suggest to others that are having this mod done, be careful when you get your new motor back. It may not run as it did before and I don't want anyone's toys to get hurt. I think I've been clear about saying that Magnum has something that could really be what we are all looking for.

I've said it before but I think it's worth mentioning again, although both of my SGB engines have quit in flight numerous times and both helicopters have had boom strikes, both are running much better after a considerable amount of running.

I damaged my Tempest at the Birmingham fly-in after the engine quit in flight (again). (A better man would have saved it without damage, I know, but that's another story.) That engine was the OS .91HZ-R W/SGB I mentioned in an earlier post. When I returned home, I'd lost faith in the engine so I took it out of the helicopter and ran it on the test bench. Yes I have a test bench. I never run heli engines on the bench but this was an exception. The engine ran fine making it all the more mysterious to me. All this leads me to say I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with the SGB mod.

Here is a long and boring vid of me running the engine - if anyone is interested. Seems to run fine doesn't it?

Watch at YouTube

The engine is back in my repaired Tempest and after a few hours running on the bench, it is running very much like it did before having the SGB installed. Since my confidence in this engine is only improving slowly, I'm not flying it very hard. I'll expand the envelope as my trust grows.

I actually might call Buzz but I'm not really sure what I'd tell him. I'm not sure what I expect him to do?.?

Bill
"Well, nothing bad can happen now."
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
WATCH
 13 pages [ <<    <     6      7     ( 8 )     9      10     NEXT    >> ] 29913 views POST REPLY
HomeRC & Power✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterEngines Plugs Mufflers Fuel › os 55 Magnum Center-Glide Bearing System
 Print TOPIC  Make Suggestion 

 42  Topic Subscribe

Thursday, July 18 - 2:18 am - Copyright © 2000-2019 RunRyder   EMAILEnable Cookies

Login Here
 New Subscriptions 
 Buddies Online