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HomeAircraftHelicopterFlybarless Rotor Head SystemsFutaba CGY › First 750 Setup - Want it to be a good one.
06-10-2012 09:51 PM  6 years agoPost 1
rballz

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Springfield, MO - USA

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I don't want to set my 750 up funky and be on the forums complaining about it. I like the unit and want it to fly well.

So let me tell you what I've done and maybe you guys can help me ensure I do the most I can to have success.

Heli: Synergy n5C, Torque 9180x3/9188 tail on 6v life, 2100mah.

Balance with half a tank is spot on holding it sideways by the main grips.

Here's my current settings, I do believe my mechanical setup could be a bit better. Per Matt Botos I have my cyclic balls in at 10mm per his FBL resolution suggestions.

Rudder basic dg:760, 100 a/b limit, 3d mode

Elev/Ail omitted unless I need them

Swash:

h3-120
servotype: DG 285hz
size: 600-700
Flt Mode: 4
servo combo: #3
ail reverse, rest normal
ail ntr: 0
ele ntr: +65
pit ntr: +33
AIL rate: +60
ELE Rate: +69
PIT Rate: -50
SWS Ring: 100% (didn't touch this)
PhaseEqu: Off
Rot Equa: OFF
Equa Dir: Normal, didnt touch this yet
ROT Trak: +0.0%
ROT. HIs: 16

rud gain 80, ele/ail gain 60 to start.

I get a about a degree more pos pitch than negative (12/11) and a half degree more left ail than right (7.5/8) and 8 elev on those settings.

Rudder, with everything 90, is giving a gob of T/R pitch so I'm not certain I have the geometry right here.

Anything look off, should I be super anal and get mechanics perfect or is what I describe ok?

I've not touched any expert settings yet - or the gov.

Synergy N5c | MA Furion 6 | MSH Protos

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06-10-2012 11:31 PM  6 years agoPost 2
kcordell

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O Fallon, MO

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Make sure you do the 'trim flight' before you start adusting anything.

Team Futaba, Team Synergy/Rail, Team Scorpion, Team Castle Creations, YS Engines, VelTye

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HomeAircraftHelicopterFlybarless Rotor Head SystemsFutaba CGY › First 750 Setup - Want it to be a good one.
06-11-2012 01:07 AM  6 years ago •• Post 3 ••
Dr.Ben

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Richmond, VA, USA

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Matt knows his model better than anyone on the planet, but
I would question swash AFR's that high to yield only 8D of cyclic. You basically have little room (AIL) and no room (ELE) to increase the cyclics if you want faster roll or pitch rates without driving the servos really far off neutral with any combination of cyclic and collective. I would confirm with Matt those numbers. Remember that if you would like to raise the cyclic throw per unit of swashaplate tilt WITHOUT affecting collective range then you can run a bit longer control ball on the inner ring of the swash if you have the clearance to do so.

I would go back and either drill or reposition the servo arm positions to reduce that subtrim. You have way more in there esp. on ELE than should be required given the adjustment range of the
splines on the servo wheels.

Once you have done a test flight, Matt or I can guide you on what to tweak as needed to suit your tastes and that particular model.

Ben Minor

Peak Aircraft/Team Minicopter Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA

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06-11-2012 01:30 AM  6 years agoPost 4
rballz

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Springfield, MO - USA

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Manual states that a person MIGHT want to do cyclic balls at 10mm vs 13'ish for more 'resolution' so I started there. I can try the stock 13/13.5 (don't remember exact) to drive the rates down.

I'll re-do the mechanics to shoot for 0-10 usec then? I'm trying to get away with stock arms and the wheels supplied are a bit big for this model.

I'll probably go ahead and put tank 1 through since this is a new motor, all the unit has to do there is work.

Synergy N5c | MA Furion 6 | MSH Protos

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06-11-2012 02:44 AM  6 years agoPost 5
Kevin Dalrymple

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Indianapolis

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Start with the servo horn balls at 10mm. Use the long balls on the awash and remember to take 1-2mm off the treads so they do not bottom out on the swash bearing.

You need to fix the neutral settings. The ELE is way off.

As far as AFRs start with 60 on ALE and 65 on ELE. If it flips a little slow you can increase by a few points at a time. Set some expo to start off with, try -35%, and work from there. Check for binding of the links at full throws. The elevator will be close. Better safe than sorry.

The tail might be fast off center. This is the same set up as I have on my N5C. I set the rate on the radoio to 85% travel and -5% expo.

I also took all the expo out of the 750. There is a weird feeling if you run expo in the radio and the 750 at the same time.

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06-11-2012 02:52 AM  6 years agoPost 6
rballz

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Springfield, MO - USA

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1) Kit come with the long balls extra, in the spare bag or something? IF not I'll have to roll stock until I can order some.

2) My 8FG is new to me and noticed I had the LD/RD trims enabled. I enabled those and realize I know may have to re-do the entire setup since I was feeding unknown pit trim?

I'm going to start over, stay at 10mm out, and if the long links are in my kit spares dremel and install them.

I'm a newer pilot, working upright/inverted orientations and sport flying. I can handle slow rates for the time being, just want the 750 setup as good as possible to avoid mechanical issues causing weirdness.

Synergy N5c | MA Furion 6 | MSH Protos

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06-11-2012 03:14 AM  6 years agoPost 7
Kevin Dalrymple

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Indianapolis

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There are not any extra long balls in the kits. You will need to get some. Part number 107-108. The rates will be slow but it will fly fine and you will need to tune the heli to your likeing.

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06-11-2012 03:23 AM  6 years agoPost 8
GetToDaChopper

rrElite Veteran

Las Vegas , NV

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you seem more open to suggestions than most plus willing to make changes if need be and your making all the right moves, your first fight should go very well........

    ▲
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▲ ▲ ▲ One of a Kind !!!

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06-11-2012 03:54 AM  6 years agoPost 9
Dr.Ben

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Richmond, VA, USA

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Yeah, shut down those trimmers at least for now. You will likely need to go back and reset the high and low and midstick points into the 750. You'll be able to get the neutrals noticeably better by just jockeying the arms on the servos. Remember that Futaba has multiple servo wheel molds, so each one is not necessarily identical to the other. When you arrive at enough control authority with the swash afr's at about 60%, you will have the optimal balance of electronic and mechanical gain.

Ben Minor

Peak Aircraft/Team Minicopter Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA

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06-11-2012 05:46 AM  6 years agoPost 10
rballz

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Springfield, MO - USA

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Thank you all - I'm going to sort my mechanical issues and report back.

Synergy N5c | MA Furion 6 | MSH Protos

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06-12-2012 03:06 AM  6 years agoPost 11
rballz

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Springfield, MO - USA

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Messing with this now.

1) Went back and swapped arms around and found the following with everything 90, swash level in normal mode THIS time with no pit curve 'hover' trim.

Neutrals:
pit 0
ele 0
ail -10

2) Adjusted the swash plate to get as close to even throw +/-, upped to around -60 to get +/-12'ish.

3) AFR - no change! get 6 degrees at 60 on elev, around 7 on ail at 60. Uneven / different throws at times. Maybe it's this RC Logger pitch gauge being wacky.... No idea what to do here.

Synergy N5c | MA Furion 6 | MSH Protos

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06-12-2012 03:14 AM  6 years agoPost 12
Kevin Dalrymple

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Indianapolis

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The afrs at 60 with 6 degrees is why you need the long bals for the swash. If you change to the long balls your pitch with stay the same and your cyclic will speed up. You should have 8+ degrees of cyclic @ 60 on your afrs. I was told that the ale will be one number and the ele should be about 5 points higher to get the same flip and roll feel. This came from the Synergy pro pilots. And it works, that is how my N5C is set up.

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06-12-2012 03:25 AM  6 years agoPost 13
rballz

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Springfield, MO - USA

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If it's not my setup, but just the way the kit is, I'm going to just order the long balls and run it as is for now.

I can handle slow rates as I'm doing upright orientation and inverted orientation with stationary flips/rolls being the max I do.

Main goal is to make sure the unit has what it needs to operate well.

Now to figure out how to set the throttle servo/trim for the maiden...

Synergy N5c | MA Furion 6 | MSH Protos

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06-12-2012 03:30 AM  6 years agoPost 14
Kevin Dalrymple

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Indianapolis

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You should be good to go. Turn on the piro comp and it will help.

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06-12-2012 04:08 AM  6 years agoPost 15
Dr.Ben

rrMaster

Richmond, VA, USA

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You will sometimes see a small amount of travel imbalance. Measure the direction with the lesser amount of travel, then lower the AFR for the other side of the function being measured so the throws match.

Get the longer balls for the innder ring of the swash. I know you are not looking for wicked control rates, but 6 degreess on a 750 is likely to be painfully slow.

Ben Minor

Peak Aircraft/Team Minicopter Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA

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06-12-2012 04:31 AM  6 years agoPost 16
rballz

rrNovice

Springfield, MO - USA

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I have it measuring 7.5 at 65 on the elev if a center the pitch gauge on the rotor hub/main bearing block as the heli itself is not level.

So now I have 60 ail for 8.5 and 65 elev for 7.5.

I'll get the longer balls and have asked n5C owners running the 750 to share their AFRs with me.

Synergy N5c | MA Furion 6 | MSH Protos

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06-12-2012 04:43 AM  6 years agoPost 17
rballz

rrNovice

Springfield, MO - USA

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Where do you adjust a side of the AFR by itself?

Long balls ordered.

Really appreciate everyone's help.

Synergy N5c | MA Furion 6 | MSH Protos

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06-12-2012 09:46 PM  6 years agoPost 18
rballz

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Springfield, MO - USA

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Page 121 in the manual has a note stating to make sure ail/elev/pit throws are maxed in the tx before doing linkage comp...

Do they mean 100/100 or go for max 140/140 on the 8FG? Maybe that could help get 8-9 degrees at a lower AFR?

Synergy N5c | MA Furion 6 | MSH Protos

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06-12-2012 10:30 PM  6 years agoPost 19
Kevin Dalrymple

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Indianapolis

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100%

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06-13-2012 03:19 AM  6 years agoPost 20
rballz

rrNovice

Springfield, MO - USA

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Maiden went alright, could barely fly it though due to massive tail drift left.

I had to hold almost full right rudder in avcs! I'm at a loss.

I see some mechanical improvement on center, but shouldn't the 750 work to hold the tail in AVCS?

Is there some kind of compensation I could have backwards to cause that?

Nitro, linear curve for break in, head speed could be low. It did require less rudder as the engine leaned out and gained more power.

Compensation direction is correct.

Synergy N5c | MA Furion 6 | MSH Protos

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HomeAircraftHelicopterFlybarless Rotor Head SystemsFutaba CGY › First 750 Setup - Want it to be a good one.
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