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Home✈️Aircraft🚁Helicoptere-Electric General Discussion › Next Generation BEC's
06-06-2012 01:32 AM  9 years ago
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Nasscar][

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Delaware

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Next Generation BEC's
I know that for the past few years I have been really interested in the industry supporting and designing power systems for the R/C industry paying more attention to our demands when it comes to power for R/C models.

Time after time I have inquired about incorporating a mean's to add power redundancy to our BEC's without costing an arm & a leg.

I understand that you get what you pay for but when are just going to take the redundancy factor into play?

I'm really not interested in having a BEC included in a ESC because if the BEC fails your out of two items instead of one.

My request would be to have one of two options or both:

1) middle ware device that would allow be to connect two input devices of my choice. (BEC & Battery) (2ea Batteries) or (2ea BEC's)

2) BEC with the feature to add a second device, similar to #1.

What do you guys think? I know that i'm not the only dreamer.

Please Review:

http://www.western-robotics.com/battery_buffer_hp.html

Nas,
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06-06-2012 02:13 AM  9 years ago
Gregor99

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Western Wa

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You know, when I first figured out what the BEC does, my next question was "why is there no way to make it redundant?". But based on what I know today, it would be cost prohibitive and be heavy. If it could made light, inexpensive and reliable, I might buy it. As they say, pick any two, but you can't have all three.

But as I have yet to have one of my US Western Robotics, or Dimension engineering BECs fail, I do begin to question the likely of BEC failure. There are definitely brands that have had issues. Stick the good ones and you won't have an issue.
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06-06-2012 03:51 AM  9 years ago
Heli 770

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USA.

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US Robotics, do they make BECs?
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06-06-2012 06:26 AM  9 years ago
Gregor99

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Western Wa

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LOL, I guess I'm dating myself. Loved those modems. Corrected my post.
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06-06-2012 11:05 AM  9 years ago
GetToDaChopper

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Las Vegas , NV

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Western Robotics makes very good BEC's, mines been solid at a rock !    ▲
  ▲ ▲
▲ ▲ ▲ One of a Kind !!!
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06-06-2012 11:19 AM  9 years ago
yannick

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South Korea

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my philosophy is :

The more redundant system you put to improve safety, the more failure points you add to your heli, witch reduces safety...

So basically, apart from increasing weight and wires and complexity, redundant systems are not a solution to me.

I just buy simple and reliable equipment and keep systems as simple and clear as possible.

This is what I do personnaly.

Yannick
Is it me or this time the ground was higher than last time??
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06-06-2012 12:35 PM  9 years ago
Paul Woodcock

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Hi guys

The one big problem with a heli is there is zero redundancy in anything.....

In a big rc plane, you have dual servos, dual receiver, dual power etc, etc..... even if they all fail, it goes into failsafe. I have been lucky and had a 'zero damage' crash from a failsafe situation.....Lucky because i could do a proper investigation. It was a problem charger, red light on, but no charging (old style.... 20 years ago)

On helps, we rely on every screw, bolt, wire, servo, pushrod, etc, etc..... any one item fails and we will probably have a crash. About the only exception is probably the tail drive or tail control.

I have often thought about a redundant power system, but just done as suggested above.....get one, but get a good good one. I have always used the best available power source, testers, failsafe switches and chargers, whatever the technology was at the time.

I am also crazy about 'the build'..... Everything must be perfect, including the wiring. I feel most crashes they get blamed on equipment failure were actually user induced and could have been identified as a problem prior to the flight.

Regards
Paul

PS: The concept of redundancy adding failure points is an issue. The Mean Time Between Failure of your added item must be greater than the thing it is protecting....
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06-06-2012 02:57 PM  9 years ago
Nasscar][

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Delaware

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I remember back when digital servos where introduce, this was also around the same time nickel metal hydride batteries where also introduced.

Major issues with power draw from this new technology and we didn't really at that time have sufficient batteries to manage these servos.

It still pains me thinking about the several crashes for when my rx reset because of the amp draw forcing the rx into failsafe.

Since those days I have always hoped for a means of an inexpensive light weight redundant power management system.

Nas,
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06-06-2012 03:49 PM  9 years ago
JKos

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Several of the BECs on the market right now can be connected in parallel without any need of a "middle ware device."

What I find appalling is how receiver manufacturers have failed to design in sufficient decoupling and filtering to keep the receivers from resetting during short power dropouts. It would be very easy to keep the internals going for a respectable amount of time. That is something a "middle ware device" could help with now.

- John
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06-06-2012 04:50 PM  9 years ago
Paul Woodcock

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Hi guys

and that about the only Rx with a failsafe switch is the Spektrum 7100.....

regards
Paul
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06-06-2012 04:53 PM  9 years ago
Paul Woodcock

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Hi guys

I could never get successful bench results from NiMh AA cells, so thank goodness never used one in a heli. Saw fits of 'radio' crashes because of them.

Regards
Paul
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06-06-2012 07:01 PM  9 years ago
povern

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Doesnt the Kontronics ESC had redundant BECs?Screw It, I'm gonna fly
Synergy E5, E5s and Logo 800 xxtreme
vControl and Neo
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06-06-2012 07:28 PM  9 years ago
Heli 770

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povern
I think it's a batt. back up that they call "buffer Pack".
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06-06-2012 08:04 PM  9 years ago
Gregor99

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Western Wa

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The more redundant system you put to improve safety, the more failure points you add to your heli, witch reduces safety...
Agreed. Here's a slightly unrelated story. The kids kept leaving the lights on in the minivan, which ran the battery dead. So I found a device that disconnects the battery when it gets low (like 11.9v). Then auto reconnects when you try to start the car. This leaves just enough juice in the battery to start the car.

I tested it and worked surprisingly well. Fast foward about 10 months and I get a call from my wife. Car won't start. I head out with tools and DVM. Battery is good, the device failed. Bypass the device and all is good. Send the unit in for warranty replacement. No problems. Put the new unit. Approximately 16 months later the replacement failed. The company did replace that unit even though its out of warranty.
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06-06-2012 08:08 PM  9 years ago
rtdillon

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Huntsville, AL

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Simple is better
Less hardware = less failure points.
I have power resundancy in my heli by using two smaller ~1AH LIFe 2 cell batteries, two power feeds, and a "high voltage" system.

Battery 1 plugs into feed cable 1 which plugs into the BeastX.
Battery 2 plugs into feed cable 2 which plugs into the Futaba RX.
The Futaba RX and the Beastx are tied together by the sbus cable.
This provides 2 independent routes for power to get to the entire system, independant batteries, and independant connections. You could add isolation diodes to each feed cable if you want thus providing isolation if a pack fails in flight.

I change the smaller packs with each change of main pack.
No,No..The other left!
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06-14-2012 04:24 PM  9 years ago
Nasscar][

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I still see a place for this in what we do.

We work very hard & play hard and our hobbies are not cheap.

Nas,
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06-30-2012 10:59 PM  8 years ago
Nasscar][

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Delaware

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Looks like someone is paying attention:

http://www.western-robotics.com/battery_buffer_hp.html
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06-30-2012 11:07 PM  8 years ago
Heli 770

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Good Find.
Thanks.
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07-01-2012 02:11 AM  8 years ago
Nasscar][

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Delaware

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Hopefully this solution will assist in having redundant power sources.

Dedicated batteries are nice
There are some good BEC's in the market today

BUT, cells fail and componuts in BEC's can fail.

I have experienced both and it's not a pleasant sight for either your wallet or confidence when flying.

Nas,
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07-02-2012 02:42 PM  8 years ago
Richardmid1

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Leeds, England

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What I find appalling is how receiver manufacturers have failed to design in sufficient decoupling and filtering to keep the receivers from resetting during short power dropouts. It would be very easy to keep the internals going for a respectable amount of time. That is something a "middle ware device" could help with now.
Isn't this what those little capacitors are for the Spektrum do that just plug into a spare channel in the RX?
60% of the time, it works every time!
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