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HomeAircraftHelicopterGasser Model RC HelicoptersOther News  New OS 15cc Gas engine
06-05-2012 04:09 PM  6 years agoPost 1
ymuraki

rrApprentice

Tampa, FL

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OS coming up with 15cc gas engine to put regular 90 size heli.
Quest is testing on Cailber 90.

Check this link.
http://ameblo.jp/1989quest/entry-11...rc=thumb_module

Futaba/Hobbico
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06-05-2012 06:17 PM  6 years agoPost 2
RM3

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Killeen, Texas - USA

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a 15CC on a 700

this has been talked about before...

if the stock 20cc is just enough for the RadikalG20 which is a large 600 class heli I seriously don't think that a smaller 15CC engine swinging even larger blades on a "700" will cut the mustard to do anything more than mild flight routines (like scale flights).

They will need to pump that puppy to 18,000 or more RPMs and use gearing to get anything close to "mild" 3D performance out of it especially on a 700 class heli which seems to be where things are going right now.

the OS engines design does not seem to be designed specificlly as a gas engine but rather a converted Nitro...there is a post here somewhere about the whole issue of these converted engines. I think the general idea was that it had a long way to go design wise.

showing a preference will only get you into trouble, 90% of everything is crap...

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06-05-2012 07:53 PM  6 years agoPost 3
ymuraki

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Tampa, FL

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Whole point of the OS 15cc gas is light weight and easy to install existing 90 size machines.

As far as I can read, it's supposed to be 1.2Kg lighter than G26. (I don't know G20's wight.) Almost the same weight as nitro 90's.

They are testing on Caliber and able to perform F3C P schedule.
It probably not have a lot of power to do 3D yet.

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06-05-2012 08:48 PM  6 years agoPost 4
RM3

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Killeen, Texas - USA

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yes its lighter than the G26...but thats the Regular G26 with the heavy flywheel...the G26EI on the other hand weighs about 1200g and in its modded form produces anywhere from 3 to almost 5 hp (in some cases even modded engines like 231s/260s make up to 7 hp for marine use) and run over 13,000 rpm.

even a plain ol nitro .90 makes at least 3 hp...

So the 15CC in a 700 is kinda like putting a 4 cylinder engine in a fullsize pickup truck if you ask me, you can drive around town easily enough but don't ask it to do anything resembling work.

as for easy to install...

I hope they make it just as easy to return it when people figure out they can't do even beginner level 3D without some serious altitude and godlike collective management.

I'm positive that some will use it like they currently do in planes, but I'm also willing to guess that most will just be disappointed overall and it will fade away slowly or just be a failure as far as Helis go.

as for:
It probably not have a lot of power to do 3D yet.
IMHO I think we are beating a dead horse with this one...

showing a preference will only get you into trouble, 90% of everything is crap...

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06-05-2012 09:35 PM  6 years agoPost 5
rexxigpilot

rrProfessor

Florida

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Here's some data.
GT15HZ Specification (Prototype)
Displacement: 14.95cc (0.912cu.in)
Bore: 27.7mm(1.091 inches)
Stroke: 24.8mm(0.976 inches)
Practical R.P.M Range: 2,000~16,000 RPM 2.8ps/14,000rpm(2.762hp/14,000rpm)Weight: Engine: 706g, CDI Igniter: 92g
Is the power of 15cc gas engine enough?
It is predictable that the ignite point of gas is higher than nitro, and the power is not big as nitro. This is why pilots modified gas engine usually used at least 23~26cc engine on 90 grade helicopter. The power of these modified engine is enough, but the weight of a 26cc gas engine is about 1.6~1.7 kg. Under the same rotor disk, higher displacement gas engine can satisfy the demand of torque, but it is too heavy and lack of flexibility.
The power of GT15 is only 2.8ps, but the weight including CDI igniter is only 798g. The displacement is only 15cc, but the power-to-weight ratio is quite good. Please refer to the calculation below:
OS50SX (1.9ps)+T-REX600N take-off weight: 3,400g, power-to-weight ratio: 0.558ps/1kg
OS55HZ (2.1ps)+T-REX600N take-off weight: 3,400g, power-to-weight ratio: 0.617ps/1kg
OS91HZ (3.4ps)+T-REX700N take-off weight: 4,900g, power-to-weight ratio: 0.693ps/1kg
OS GT15HZ (2.8ps)+T-REX700N take-off weight: 5,073g, power-to-weight ratio: 0.552ps/1kg

As the calculation, the performance of GT15 will be closed to OS50SX. If it is the best performance, it seems really good!
Of course, the ratio above is only estimated, pilot can test GT15 in person to prove the actual performance.

The biggest selling point is that the gas is cheap! GT15 may be suitable for pilots needs long time flight and practice. A 600cc fuel tank will enable to fly about 60mins; all you need to worry is not the fuel, but the power of your receiver!

Article resource: RC Mania
As you can see, it will have more than enough power for 3D. It has 90% of the torque of the 91HZ-R and just a bit more weight. There would be more difference than this between a perfectly tuned HZ91 and one running just a tad bit rich. Gas engines are much easier to tune nearly perfect compared to nitro and are more consistent with varying atmospheric conditions. My guess is it will have very similar performance to the 91HZ-R in a T-Rex700N, or about the same as a well tuned OS50Hyper in a T-Rex600N.

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06-05-2012 10:17 PM  6 years agoPost 6
Justin Stuart (RIP)

rrMaster

Plano, Texas

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I'm interested in this engine. I just hope with the nitro muffler, it has a better sound. Most gassers are very annoying to the ears.

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06-05-2012 10:43 PM  6 years agoPost 7
helicoop

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North West Ohio

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If we can get the proper gearing it would go great in a 600.

RC- a life style not a hobby!

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06-06-2012 11:25 PM  6 years agoPost 8
RM3

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Killeen, Texas - USA

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2.8ps/14,000rpm(2.762hp/14,000rpm)
somthing just bothers me about those numbers given the displacement of 15cc...

I'm worried that the power band could very well be narrow and therefore making gearing very critical. also as mentioned may times before on other posts buy experienced engine guys...that engine design is going to have some serious cooling and durability issues.

as for:
Gas engines are much easier to tune nearly perfect compared to nitro and are more consistent with varying atmospheric conditions
but they are also very easy to damage if you don't know what your doing tuning wise. there are many that have fried thier engines rather quickly thinking that they had it tuned perfect.

then theres this:
A 600cc fuel tank will enable to fly about 60mins
My stock Radikal G20 has a 300ml fuel tank and gets maybe 14 minutes when broken in and running at a healthy HS of about 1800,
if it had a 600ml fuel tank (equiv to 600cc tank) then it should get at least 30 minutes...yet the 15cc gets DOUBLE that fuel economy (600cc for 60min) with 50% more HP at the same RPM? somthings wrong here....

I think I'll wait for non paid spokespeople (like everyday end user heli guys) to do actual 6 month Taste Tests before spending $$$.

As for now I'll stick to my heavy Zenoah thats been running great for two years without issues.

showing a preference will only get you into trouble, 90% of everything is crap...

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06-07-2012 01:44 AM  6 years agoPost 9
Blanka

rrApprentice

lover city

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OS GT15HZ (2.8ps)+T-REX700N take-off weight: 5,073g, power-to-weight ratio: 0.552ps/1kg
that's the power with a Rex 700 full tank (630ml)
if they are planning to run it with a little tank then its power would be similar to the OS.55 one.
I'm interested in this engine.
+1 I hate the Zenoah stone.

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06-07-2012 04:41 AM  6 years agoPost 10
Justin Stuart (RIP)

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Plano, Texas

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Zenoah is just such an old "industrial" design that takes so much work by specialized craftsmen to make it worthwhile.

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06-08-2012 03:40 AM  6 years agoPost 11
brw0513

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Brisbane, Australia

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I've got high hopes for this engine. Not based on any absolute number, rather the brand name.

This is OS we are talking about. I've got no idea what goes on in their R&D department of course, but it seems to me they must have started with a clean-ish sheet of paper. Who else makes a similar engine that is successful to reverse-engineer from? If someone is going to do it and get it right, it will be OS.

I think it's great for our hobby that OS has recognised a market for this engine. And with nitro engines becoming less popular, I don't think OS can afford to get it too wrong.

How cool would it be to be able to put such an engine into almost any donor 600/700 airframe? No manic 3D but we are starting to see larger electric models with owners chasing super low headspeed. TDR on 6S anyone?

Has OS ever produced a dog of an engine that was pulled from the market soon after introduction and not replaced it quickly with a Version 2?

Bring it on. The glass is definitely half full with this one!

Imagine the day when YS and OS are competing for our dollars for a 105 or even 140 size spark ignition engine. My crystal ball has been wrong before, but I can't see a reason why this couldn't happen.

Flame suit on

Ian B

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06-08-2012 05:07 AM  6 years agoPost 12
Gearhead

rrMaster

Vt

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""I think it's great for our hobby that OS has recognised a market for this engine""

no flaming, I agree, and I hope it works out, but, there is always a but,, but,, Webra was every bit the engine builder OS is, yet if you do a RR Gasser Page search you will find Webra didn't fair to well in the US with their 15cc and 120cc gassers

Jim
Buzz Buzz Buzz

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06-08-2012 07:21 AM  6 years agoPost 13
RM3

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Killeen, Texas - USA

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so I take it no one can explain the following...

How is it that OS 15cc can "claim" (by their specs) it gets DOUBLE the fuel economy (600cc for 60min) with 50% more HP AND with 25% less displacement as compared to a stock Zenoah G20 EI?

is OS just playing with stats and "creative/selective specs" or is the Zenoah really that crappy?

BTW looking up nitro to gas conversion engines here on RR by both manufacturer and DIYers did not favor this design as getting very far for the most part...alot of people seemed to complain about over heating and serious durability and reliability issues. Why would this one be any different?

showing a preference will only get you into trouble, 90% of everything is crap...

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06-08-2012 08:09 AM  6 years agoPost 14
Gearhead

rrMaster

Vt

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edited

Fuel consumption, well surely OS fuel consumption tests were done at the lowest Throttle settings possible, remember> it takes more fuel to hover a heli than to fly a heli slow

HP, my answer to OS HP rating would be that I have to believe OS tested their engine with a Cone type Tuned Pipe while Zenoah tests were done with a stock muffler,
and if the Zenoah was a purpose built Heli Engine it's HP output would probably be higher out of the box..

Jim
Buzz Buzz Buzz

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06-08-2012 09:00 AM  6 years agoPost 15
brw0513

rrApprentice

Brisbane, Australia

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Jim,

I didn't know about the Webra "failure" so thanks for the heads up - I'm keen to do some research to find more.

If the results and issues are available to read about publicly, then I'd hope OS paid attention and learned some lessons cheaply.

I still think a purpose designed spark ignition engine in this format could work. Let's hope OS gets it right for the good of their business and our little community.

Ian B

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06-08-2012 10:51 AM  6 years agoPost 16
shawmcky

rrElite Veteran

Isle of Wight,United Kingdom

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+1 on OS success,it would make things so much easier and cheaper,wont be holding my breath on the chances.OS should be looking at designing a cooling system to run alongside this new motor,with nitro on the up and spare cash in ever shorter supply,if it could work,i think they would benefit tremendously.

Team- unbiased opinion.K.I.S.S principle upheld here

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06-08-2012 07:27 PM  6 years agoPost 17
Gearhead

rrMaster

Vt

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I don't know if I would say the Webra was a "failure", (putting the cooling complaints aside) it's more like the American market expected more from it in power than what they got from it, and that is what I'm expecting from the OS, pleas notice that OS brings up the fact that this gasser will be a good Engine for beginners to learn on

Jim
Buzz Buzz Buzz

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06-08-2012 07:36 PM  6 years agoPost 18
RM3

rrElite Veteran

Killeen, Texas - USA

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notice that OS brings up the fact that this gasser will be a good Engine for beginners to learn on
GREAT...just had to look at that again....

in "experienced" heli terms "Engine for beginners" usually means UNDERPOWERED.

showing a preference will only get you into trouble, 90% of everything is crap...

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06-08-2012 07:48 PM  6 years agoPost 19
Gearhead

rrMaster

Vt

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well it is a 90, if you can fit it in a 50 size heli it may do OK,,,,,,,,,,, if it can be cooled LOL

Jim
Buzz Buzz Buzz

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06-08-2012 07:55 PM  6 years agoPost 20
RM3

rrElite Veteran

Killeen, Texas - USA

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Well if they add 800g worth of cooling fins...
it may do OK
polite way of saying its gonna suck...

showing a preference will only get you into trouble, 90% of everything is crap...

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HomeAircraftHelicopterGasser Model RC HelicoptersOther News  New OS 15cc Gas engine
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