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HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › Self level, auto pilot, Rescue and now Hard Deck?
06-01-2012 12:05 AM  6 years agoPost 21
GetToDaChopper

rrElite Veteran

Las Vegas , NV

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50 feet is not set in stone, the minimum height is still undecided.....
Dood, no way they would allow this at the competitions. otherwise the pilots could pull up a chair next to the judges.
i believe that is what he said.....
you WILL see things written in competition rules that prohibit such a thing
no way they would allow this at the competitions = competition rules that prohibit

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06-01-2012 03:04 AM  6 years agoPost 22
jphilli

rrKey Veteran

Atlanta, Ga.

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There's not a crash I have had that a bail out feature would've fixed.

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06-01-2012 03:17 AM  6 years agoPost 23
USNAviationjay

rrElite Veteran

Houston Tx USA

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actually choppa on the thread over there.. they pretty much said right now and at release it is 50 feet as that is the minimum the system can react fast enough to guarantee no crashes.
straight from Howard in fact.

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06-01-2012 03:34 AM  6 years agoPost 24
USNAviationjay

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Houston Tx USA

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Here it is. that was written over there.

"I suppose 20 feet would be a great hard deck altitude. However, it sometimes takes the helicopter 30 feet to recover when the vertical descent is very fast or the head speed is very low. I’m also looking at a 10 ft error on the altitude reading at times. I would like to keep the minimum altitude at 50 ft, because that leaves a margin of 10 ft above the ground in the worst case scenario.

Hard deck is kind of a peculiar feature. People will try to defeat HD thousands of times until they find just the right scenario to crash. This means millions of hard deck recoveries will occur every month with all our customers. If even HD doesn’t work just 0.1% of the time, we could have hundreds of crashes from a million HD attempts in a month if we lower the minimum altitude.

Yes, it is theoretically possible to do a 20 ft HD. But, it won’t be reliable with the current technology. We would need the reliability way up to avoid crashing. Good 3D flying at 20 ft altitude is really a predictive form of flying, not reactive. It is similar to a playback of a predetermined pattern like on a tape recorder. Imagine taking control of a heli with a buddy box when it is heading 50mph to the ground and the altitude is 20ft. Hard Deck is a reactive form of flying that has to recover from very unusual attitudes in less than 500mS. HD does not know what the intended maneuver will be. It only know the roll rate. Imagine training 3D flying at 20 ft with a buddy box. It really isn’t humanly possible. How can the instructor know what the student is attempting to do or will do incorrectly? Now imagine 3D flying with a buddy box at 50 ft. Would it be humanly possible for the instructor to recover 999 out of 1000 times? Probably not. CPII manages recoveries from 50 ft very well and usually recovers in about 500mS. I doubt that human buddy box instructors have reflexes that fast.

I don’t think HD can ever be useful for “mowing the grass” style of flying. The inertia of the helicopter forces it thru the deck. And, if the pilot is at that level of “playback” style of flying, they really don’t need HD in the first place.
The only way to do a 20 ft hard deck would be to make it ground radar based and monitor the head speed. I have looked at radar based altimeters. They still aren’t at hobby grade pricing yet. I hope you understand that 99 out of 100 recoveries isn’t acceptable for this product.

You know the ultimate HD product would be a rewind button after a crash occurs. I wanted to add such prediction into CPII. Maybe, I’ll be better at it in the future. Faster recovery times will mean less altitude loss. We know the airframes are capable of 100mS recovery times when the helicopters are really tricked out. That means the helicopters are capable of 10g accelerations if the head speed is high. "

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06-01-2012 03:41 AM  6 years agoPost 25
RappyTappy

rrProfessor

Traveling the USA

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. How can the instructor know what the student is attempting to do or will do incorrectly?
By talking.

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06-01-2012 03:54 AM  6 years agoPost 26
MichiganFlyer

rrElite Veteran

Lansing,MI

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Here is my view on it.
I am a year into the hobby. My skills are curcuits some flips,rolls and a little inverted hovering.
I want this system. I want to take the eliment of crashing out of the equation. I want to enjoy learning to fly without crashing. I also want to learn to fly higher. I am scared to fly higher be cause I may loose orientation and end in a crash.
If I do this in the first couple minutes of my first flight at the field everytime, I will be discouraged to try anything out of my comfort zone. My comfort zone is realy holding me back.
For guys like me this is the answer.
Call it what ever you want, I call it the answer to my poblems.
I can't wait till I can just learn, learn to react properly and not need it to correct for me.
This unit will definitely help me.
Now when can I get one?

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06-01-2012 04:38 AM  6 years agoPost 27
Rob Faust

rrApprentice

Spring, Tx

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Afraid to crash
For me, part of this hobby was about conquering my fear. I have made it to the 3D stage and still get that "rush" feeling when I've had a particularly aggressive flight. Heck, it even still happens when I practice a manuever I have let myself get rusty on.

That little adrenaline rush that makes my hands shake, it's what has always kept me in the hobby. A friend of mine and I have discussed and agreed that some people that have an adrenaline release, also have a feeling of elation shortly thereafter. These people are drawn to activities that scare them...(me)

Other people will have feelings of anxiety after adrenaline. Those are usually the people who stay away from things that scare them.

Which person are you?

I guess different people get or want different things from the hobby. I want the adreanaline. I want the extreme challenge accompanied with the chance that I may crash. Any type of Auto-correct would ruin it for me.

As for tail gyros, you can fly without them. It's not easy, but you can do it.

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06-01-2012 04:49 AM  6 years agoPost 28
MichiganFlyer

rrElite Veteran

Lansing,MI

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Adrenaline! Yeah! Butt puckering! Cool! $300 crash.....Co pilot could have saved me.

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06-01-2012 04:57 AM  6 years agoPost 29
MichiganFlyer

rrElite Veteran

Lansing,MI

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Imagine, Take off and fly around as a newbie get in trouble and instead of TH and crash, you hit a switch and it saves you. Flip the switch off and you are back to learning. Hmm could this be the trainer without buddy boxing?

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06-01-2012 05:40 AM  6 years agoPost 30
MN_heli pilot

rrNovice

Burnville, MN -US

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I would love to have something like this. I went out last night with my 450 3D and lost orientation and crashed into some tall grass, not too bad. I fixed it and went out gain today, crashed about a minute into the flight and now I'm ordering parts. Now if I had something that would auto level for me it would have saved me two crashes. For me its not the money that bothers me it is the time I could be spending learning how to fly instead of waiting for parts.

I see this more as a training aid and not an auto pilot. I would buy one any day just to get past the learning stage.

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06-01-2012 05:47 AM  6 years agoPost 31
MN_heli pilot

rrNovice

Burnville, MN -US

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I guess different people get or want different things from the hobby. I want the adreanaline. I want the extreme challenge accompanied with the chance that I may crash. Any type of Auto-correct would ruin it for me.
As for tail gyros, you can fly without them. It's not easy, but you can do it.
I also like the challenge but if you can't fly because you crashed you are never going to get that rush. I want to enjoy flying not fixing. It sounds like you are past the point where something like this would really help you.

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HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › Self level, auto pilot, Rescue and now Hard Deck?
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