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HomeAircraftHelicopterGasser Model RC HelicoptersOther › Trex 700 Helibug Extreme Vibrations
05-31-2012 09:25 AM  6 years agoPost 21
Kos

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Athens, Greece

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after last night's discussion, i left the kid at kindergarden this morning and went straight to the field...i only experimented with the needles, didnt have time to check anything else (clutch, tank etc)...i experimented with the low needle between 1 turn and 1 1/4, and the high needle +1/4...i just could not believe it, it was like flying a different heli altogether...i tried 1600-1700rpms (gear ratio 6.76, engine revving at 10.800-11.500rpm), all the vibrations had disappeared, apart from mild to medium fuel foaming, depending on the level o the fuel...below 2/5 of the tank the foaming disappeared as well..below 1600rpm, it doesnt seem very happy, it develops some tail wagging at around 1500rpm...the maximum indirect temp reading i could take from the head o the engine was 96C, when the low was at 1 turn and headspeed 1700rpm...that was some good progress for one day, ll try all the other checks you pointed out...thank you all for your time and effort to share your experiences...

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05-31-2012 10:31 AM  6 years agoPost 22
shawmcky

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Isle of Wight,United Kingdom

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Great to hear that,things can only get better now your in the ball park

Team- unbiased opinion.K.I.S.S principle upheld here

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05-31-2012 10:39 AM  6 years agoPost 23
shawmcky

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Isle of Wight,United Kingdom

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I am using the align gyro,i had wag with a 1mm mounting pad,i added 2mm more and it made the tail solid.

Team- unbiased opinion.K.I.S.S principle upheld here

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05-31-2012 12:56 PM  6 years agoPost 24
Rototerrier

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Fayetteville, GA - USA

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Just be sure to keep it on the rich side. Give it several gallons to get fully broken in. It might lean out a bit more as it breaks in and you don't want to already be lean on the needles if it does. You might wind up burning it up and not realizing it is happening until it's too late.

Also, this engine is probably going to give you the best performance around 13k RPM and above. I would go ahead and bump your headspeed up to around 1900-1950 and see how that works.

Then start taking it a little higher. Test out the waters a bit. There will be a super sweet spot up there in that range. You'll know it when you find it.

Gassers Rule, Nitros Drool, Electrics...uhhh...Joule?

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06-01-2012 10:02 AM  6 years agoPost 25
kogibankole

rrKey Veteran

albuquerque/ibadan

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you need to get a stock 23 rc from daves or 29cc if you need all that power

if im not blade bogging youll find me pack puffing

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06-02-2012 08:46 PM  6 years agoPost 26
Azalin

rrApprentice

Ankara-Turkey

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How about this one? Lean/rich?

Helibug Trex 700 HB7-RC Gasser | TRM VX270TT | V-Bar silver line
Helibug Trex 600 HB6-RC7 Gasser

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06-02-2012 09:02 PM  6 years agoPost 27
fastflyer20

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N. Tonawanda, NY

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Here is a decent chart for spark plugs:

http://www.dansmc.com/Spark_Plugs/S...gs_catalog.html

Rich, yours looks like #5 or 7 in the chart. 13,14,15 is what you are aiming for.

Clean up the old plug and start to lean it out. When you think you are close based on performance, install a new plug to get an accurate reading.

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06-02-2012 09:28 PM  6 years agoPost 28
Rototerrier

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Fayetteville, GA - USA

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Definitely rich.

Gassers Rule, Nitros Drool, Electrics...uhhh...Joule?

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06-02-2012 10:17 PM  6 years agoPost 29
Azalin

rrApprentice

Ankara-Turkey

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OK guys thanks.

Helibug Trex 700 HB7-RC Gasser | TRM VX270TT | V-Bar silver line
Helibug Trex 600 HB6-RC7 Gasser

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06-13-2012 01:29 PM  6 years agoPost 30
Kos

rrApprentice

Athens, Greece

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I ve been flying my third gallon now, at needle settings as per manual (low 1 1/4 and high 1 3/8)...glow plug #3 (carbon fouled)...the engine SOUNDS rich, "coughing" etc, indirect temp reading 92-95C...i tried what few people here suggested, ie low 1 turn and high 1 1/4, for a couple of minutes fast forward flight, engine seems awesome, both sound-wise, vibration-wise and power-wise, at 1600-1700rpm...two things trouble me:

1) indirect temp readings at 105-110C, at 32-35C air temp..
2) needles being leaner than suggested in manual...

what do you reckon guys, am i in danger of leaning the engine too much?? thanx

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06-13-2012 01:42 PM  6 years agoPost 31
Rototerrier

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Fayetteville, GA - USA

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You simply cannot go by a manual or other people for your exact needle settings.

Every engine is a little different, carbs are different, plugs can be different, fuels are different, oils are different, elevations, temperatures, humidity....all different and all equate to different needle settings for your engine.

Your needles need to be set to wherever they make the engine run the best....and that can be completely different from anyone else or any manual. Manuals needle settings are guidelines, not steadfast rules.

We can help to diagnose your problems and make recommendations on whether it should be richer or leaner, but you are ultimately responsible for the final tuning.

If you have leaned it out and its smoother, running cleaner, plug looks good, and it is within tolerable temps AND YOU are comfortable with how you have it tuned, then run it like that for a while and see how it works out. If you burn it up, just replace the cylinder, ring and piston and start over again. I know this might not be popular advise....the "if you burn it up" part, but if you don't have any help and have no experience with engine tuning then you just might have to burn one up to learn your limits. I would like to see you not do that of course.

I can tell you that 1 on the low is probably about right but the 1 1/4 on the high is probably right on the edge of lean. But there again, your engine needs to be where it needs to be and that very well could be the perfect setting. But even though running this lean might be smoother, you might find it has a little more power if you richen it up. It's a balancing act.

I ran mine for a short bit at 1 1/4 and it seemed just a little on the lean side to me.

I have also read on some of the baha forums (RC Cars) that they run these 990 carbs at 1 and 1 on the needles. So it's possible.

Gassers Rule, Nitros Drool, Electrics...uhhh...Joule?

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06-13-2012 01:53 PM  6 years agoPost 32
Kos

rrApprentice

Athens, Greece

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thank you Rototerrier, ll install a brand new spark plug and keep the needles thereabouts, ll check how the spark wears, and tolerate temps up to 105-110C...does a tuned pipe make the engine happier, in terms of running cooler???? m running now with the stock canister....

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06-13-2012 02:02 PM  6 years agoPost 33
Rototerrier

rrVeteran

Fayetteville, GA - USA

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Yes, those temperatures are acceptable and common.

Different pipes can yield different results. The stock can is extremely loud but seems to run pretty smooth.

Gassers Rule, Nitros Drool, Electrics...uhhh...Joule?

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06-13-2012 02:26 PM  6 years agoPost 34
Azalin

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Ankara-Turkey

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Would this tuning work?
1- Set the ST-1 curve flat. Like say 40, 40, 40, 40, 40.
2- Hover heli and activate ST-1. HS will vary depending on the needle setting.
3- Then activate ST-2 which activates the governor as well and then rapidly go back to ST-1 . So you can see the HS on the GV-1's max RPM display.
4- Land and adjust H to get a higher HS
5- Repeat step 2 until you have the highest HS.

Edit: AFAIK rbort was using a similar method but he weren't used a flat curve.

Helibug Trex 700 HB7-RC Gasser | TRM VX270TT | V-Bar silver line
Helibug Trex 600 HB6-RC7 Gasser

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06-13-2012 02:56 PM  6 years agoPost 35
Rototerrier

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Fayetteville, GA - USA

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I used to do that but found that reaching max rpm didn't necessarily mean my engine was tuned perfectly. I gained max rpm at a much richer setting which caused tail kicking and roughness in a hover. I had to find a balance between punch out power and hovering.

The GV1 max headspeed menu is helpful.

Gassers Rule, Nitros Drool, Electrics...uhhh...Joule?

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06-13-2012 03:15 PM  6 years agoPost 36
shawmcky

rrElite Veteran

Isle of Wight,United Kingdom

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For a two stroke,picture shows a near perfect colour to aim for,four stroke colours with ECM control are too lean as a reference

Team- unbiased opinion.K.I.S.S principle upheld here

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06-13-2012 03:38 PM  6 years agoPost 37
rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

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Azalin
Would this tuning work?
1- Set the ST-1 curve flat. Like say 40, 40, 40, 40, 40.
2- Hover heli and activate ST-1. HS will vary depending on the needle setting.
3- Then activate ST-2 which activates the governor as well and then rapidly go back to ST-1 . So you can see the HS on the GV-1's max RPM display.
4- Land and adjust H to get a higher HS
5- Repeat step 2 until you have the highest HS.

Edit: AFAIK rbort was using a similar method but he weren't used a flat curve.
Your logic makes no sense whatsoever to me. The governor does not register max rpm unless you are at full throttle. You can't just switch back and forth and do this in a hover.

-=>Raja.

MA 1005 Hanson 280, 4220 flts
Spectra 27 3DMax, 3310 flts
Whiplash V1-2 Hanson 300, 1618 flts
Whiplash V2 Hanson 300, 473 flts

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06-13-2012 04:57 PM  6 years agoPost 38
Azalin

rrApprentice

Ankara-Turkey

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But at full throttle the HS keeps increasing. When do you activate the governor while climbing out?

Helibug Trex 700 HB7-RC Gasser | TRM VX270TT | V-Bar silver line
Helibug Trex 600 HB6-RC7 Gasser

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06-13-2012 05:24 PM  6 years agoPost 39
Kos

rrApprentice

Athens, Greece

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why should one care that much about headspeed??...with the GV-1 you can select the headspeed of your choosing, making it as smooth as possible by tuning the needles...as for the max rpm, you can go by the manufacturer's engine rpm range (13500-14500 for TRM 270TT) and the known gear ratio....what am i missing???

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06-13-2012 05:51 PM  6 years agoPost 40
Rototerrier

rrVeteran

Fayetteville, GA - USA

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GV1 should be active before testing the climb out.

Once the collective/throttle stick passes 90% it will store the maximum headspeed achieved after that point.

So the logic goes, governor is on as you start increasing collective and at some point will peg the throttle wide open. Once you pass 90% stick it starts storing the max RPM/headspeed.

If that MAX is not what you have set then you can:

1) Change needle settings to squeeze more power out of the engine. Try leaning or richening and further tests should yield higher max rpm values.

2) If you can't ever achieve a max that equals the desired headspeed then you may have to reduce the collective range a little because the engine simply can't handle the load.

You can test this in Normal, Idle1 and Idle2. In theory, you should be able to achieve a max headspeed value = to the desired headspeed setting entered into the Gv1 for each of the 3 possible settings.

Gassers Rule, Nitros Drool, Electrics...uhhh...Joule?

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HomeAircraftHelicopterGasser Model RC HelicoptersOther › Trex 700 Helibug Extreme Vibrations
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