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Synergy E7 › 1000rpm 6s Synergy E7
05-29-2012 03:13 PM  6 years agoPost 1
MavrikHeliAce

rrNovice

Atlanta, Georgia

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Here is a video taken at Chattanooga TN of Matt Botos flying his E7 at 1000rpm head speed.

Watch at YouTube

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05-29-2012 08:44 PM  6 years agoPost 2
Sam2b

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Tacoma, WA

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This was interesting, but instead would like to see using 10S or 12S at 1000RPM headspeed so the governor has headroom and power to work with. I think using 6S to accomplish 1000RPM headspeed is risky... but an interesting experiment nonetheless. And man, 1000 is ultra LOW for light 3D, wow.

_Sam B_

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05-29-2012 09:48 PM  6 years agoPost 3
F1 Rocket

rrKey Veteran

Melbourne, Florida USA

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The beauty of the 6s setup is the only change is the 6s pack and a tweak to the ESC settings. If you want to fly at 2K+ you just use your 12s pack. It’s like bringing two machines to the field. Yes a dedicated HV setup would have a bit more performance but this works really well. I have dozens of flights with the 6s setup.

Danny - DemonAero Support Team

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05-29-2012 11:23 PM  6 years agoPost 4
Chuck Bole

rrElite Veteran

Tulsa Ok. U.S.A.

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I might be wrong but..
using a Jazz or Jive ESC
you would pretty much leave the throttle curve percentage the same..

Figuring a 12T pinion, 116T main gear, 500Kv motor using MrMel's HS calculator..

With 12s packs
Throttle 70%: 2223
Throttle 73%: 2283
Throttle 76%: 2343

With 6s packs
Throttle 70%: 1111
Throttle 73%: 1141
Throttle 76%: 1171

So i'm thinking the head room would be the same..
chuck

Team Synergy Field Representative / Thunder Power

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05-29-2012 11:27 PM  6 years agoPost 5
AzHyper

rrKey Veteran

Peoria, Az.

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How do you keep an authoritative tail with a 1000rpm headspeed? Very nice demo btw, I really like the slow smooth controlled stuff.

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05-29-2012 11:30 PM  6 years agoPost 6
stevehof

rrApprentice

Oceanside, CA, USA

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I'd be interested in seeing a graph of that flight showing amp draws etc. Wouldn't this setup and style of flying would be hard on the battery?

Synergy E7, Vbar 5 Pro, BLS255 & 256HV Hacker Turnado 530KV LE, Rail 696, CC120HV, WR Sup BEC | 18mz

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05-29-2012 11:38 PM  6 years agoPost 7
RappyTappy

rrProfessor

Traveling the USA

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No doubt it would be better to gear it for a low head speed and use higher voltage. BUT if you are getting batteries and esc's for free, why not lol.

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05-30-2012 12:23 AM  6 years agoPost 8
Chuck Bole

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Tulsa Ok. U.S.A.

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I've been flying this way for a few weeks now. Altho nothing as close to what Matt is doing. Don't know exactly what my amp draw is or what kind of spikes i'm getting. But using a lot less percentage of the pack.. Flew 9 min and put back 2550 Mah on a 5000Mah pack..

chuck

Team Synergy Field Representative / Thunder Power

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05-30-2012 12:53 AM  6 years agoPost 9
stevehof

rrApprentice

Oceanside, CA, USA

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With 12s packs
Throttle 70%: 2223
Throttle 73%: 2283
Throttle 76%: 2343

With 6s packs
Throttle 70%: 1111
Throttle 73%: 1141
Throttle 76%: 1171
I can't quite wrap my head around the super low head speed attraction. At 76% I would think you are way out of the motor's power band and putting significant stress on the ESC. I can understand 1850 to 1950 rpm when geared properly if your primary goal is flight time, but what's the practical reason for going lower? IIRC 1800 was about all we could get out of a 60 nitro 20 years ago. Why go back to prehistoric days...

Synergy E7, Vbar 5 Pro, BLS255 & 256HV Hacker Turnado 530KV LE, Rail 696, CC120HV, WR Sup BEC | 18mz

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05-30-2012 12:58 AM  6 years agoPost 10
RappyTappy

rrProfessor

Traveling the USA

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Flying low head speed is fun and a nice change up from high head speeds when you want. Also, with a governor usually the percentage is just for the governor to know what head speed you are requesting.

Also, the motor maintains efficiency because the lower pack voltage just drops the volts per rpm (motor KV) and the motor turns slower for the same percentage of throttle. So, 50 volts X 500KV at 100% = 25,000rpms and 25 Volts X 500KV at 100% = 12,500rpms.

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05-30-2012 01:03 AM  6 years agoPost 11
Chuck Bole

rrElite Veteran

Tulsa Ok. U.S.A.

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I usually run my powerjazz between 65% and 80% on 14s.
With a top head speed around 2400 if i want to crank it that high..

Just looked and sounded cool to me. And just to be different than anyone else at my feild..

Back in my E Stratus days everyone (Experts) were screaming at me to lower my head speed. Now everyone wants to run 2300 and 2400..
Go figure..

chuck

Team Synergy Field Representative / Thunder Power

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05-30-2012 01:20 AM  6 years agoPost 12
F1 Rocket

rrKey Veteran

Melbourne, Florida USA

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I can't quite wrap my head around the super low head speed attraction.
It's challenging and fun, which is what the hobby is all about
At 76% I would think you are way out of the motor's power band and putting significant stress on the ESC.
Not at all. The ESC is handling half (or less) the wattage it has to running 12s. Everything stays very cool. In fact you can't really over stress anything because the moment you lean on it too much the head speed falls off and you need to back off the collective. Give it a try and see. Just give yourself some extra room and be patient. It is very fun and the cool thing is you haven't spent any money on a dedicated low speed setup. You just use half the pack you normally use.

Danny - DemonAero Support Team

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05-30-2012 02:44 AM  6 years agoPost 13
stevehof

rrApprentice

Oceanside, CA, USA

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Not at all. The ESC is handling half (or less) the wattage it has to running 12s. Everything stays very cool. In fact you can't really over stress anything because the moment you lean on it too much the head speed falls off and you need to back off the collective.
Seems reasonable, but what happens to your amp draw if you get behind and the motor bogs?
Back in my E Stratus days everyone (Experts) were screaming at me to lower my head speed. Now everyone wants to run 2300 and 2400..
Go figure.
LOL, there's got to be a happy medium I'm very happy at 2000 rpm. I suspect I'd be OK even a bit lower if I went down a tooth on my pinion but I'm not interested in trying anything like Matt's video...My first 12 years of aerobatic RC heli flying were with underpowered ships. I LIKE my 12s 700

Synergy E7, Vbar 5 Pro, BLS255 & 256HV Hacker Turnado 530KV LE, Rail 696, CC120HV, WR Sup BEC | 18mz

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05-30-2012 02:52 AM  6 years agoPost 14
Chuck Bole

rrElite Veteran

Tulsa Ok. U.S.A.

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Actually, contemplating building another E7 for 12s and 7s packs.. Figure head speeds would be around 2000 on 12s and 1500 or so on 7s..

chuck

Team Synergy Field Representative / Thunder Power

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05-30-2012 04:20 AM  6 years agoPost 15
Sam2b

rrElite Veteran

Tacoma, WA

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Regarding headroom, yeah I guess it does technically have enough headroom, but the motor doesn't have the same power output for the load and weight of the model. If the motor was a 1,000KV motor 700 size on 6S there's a chance power may be ok. But now that's just ludicrousness. I'm still in favor of a small 10S pack and with a low gear ratio.

_Sam B_

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05-30-2012 04:40 AM  6 years agoPost 16
JKos

rrProfessor

Redondo Beach, CA

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Looks fun!

Keep in mind that the heli is also a good, what, 26 or so ounces lighter so the disk loading is lower and spinning the blades at a lower RPM is much more efficient as well. Lots of efficiency to be gained!

BTW, 2550 mAh in 9 minutes works out to about 17 A average current draw.

- John

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05-31-2012 12:05 AM  6 years agoPost 17
00boto

rrApprentice

Kennesaw, Ga

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11 minutes of flight time with a 6s 5000 pack. All electronics including the battery are slightly over ambient temps. This is likely the most efficient setup I've ever run.

Tail performance is great! I'm still running the Rail 106 tail blades and haven't experienced a blowout yet. I will be changing to 716mm main blades and 116mm tail very soon so I will let you guys know how the new blade configuration performs.

Why run 1000? .... As F1Rocket stated, it's a challenge, it's different, and its fun! I am getting more practice time with my E7 than I ever have. 11 minutes is quite a long time to fly!

The motor really doesnt bog like you would expect it too. I am flying around with full 13 degrees of pitch the entire time and it never really loads.

Matt

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06-01-2012 03:49 AM  6 years agoPost 18
chas1025

rrVeteran

TN

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I felt the setup after the flight, and all was cool as mentioned above. It was a very cool flight.

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06-05-2012 12:02 AM  6 years agoPost 19
JKos

rrProfessor

Redondo Beach, CA

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Matt,
Is there any chance you could collect voltage/current/power data for us during one of your low headspeed flights?

Thank you,
John

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