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HomeRC & PowerAircraftHelicopterEngines Plugs Mufflers Fuel › Eating glow plugs like candy
05-29-2012 11:26 PM  6 years agoPost 41
HotsHabit

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Idaho

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Motor speed calculation is head speed times gear ratio. 2200 rpm head speed times 8.5 gear ratio = 18700 engine rpm.

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05-29-2012 11:28 PM  6 years agoPost 42
rotor head33

rrApprentice

Louisiana-United States

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So my 1900 headspeed is actually pretty low for my ys50st since that's only 16,340. Basically I could run 1950 or 2000 just fine. (probably more along the lines of 1950 since I want some sort of fuel economy haha)

Power is nothing without control

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05-30-2012 12:56 AM  6 years agoPost 43
HotsHabit

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Idaho

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The part of this that doesn't make sense to me is I can push the motor hard with tic tocs and such, hurry and land and the motor goes to idle instantly and the backplate isn't too hot, can hold your finger on it for more than 4 or 5 seconds, in fact I have to keep my thumb on the throttle stick because it some times tries to load up and die.

I will pull off the exhaust and see if I can get some pictures of the side and top of the piston, not real excited about removing the motor and the head but I will if I cant get a decent picture through the exhaust port.

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05-30-2012 01:25 AM  6 years agoPost 44
rotor head33

rrApprentice

Louisiana-United States

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I mean that could be as simple as adjusting the endpoints of low throttle ya know. Try and make it to where it doesn't idle down so low but you can still kill it by sliding the trim all the way down

Power is nothing without control

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05-30-2012 04:03 AM  6 years agoPost 45
HotsHabit

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Idaho

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Heres the pics of the newly rebuilt motor:

If this was a 2 stroke snowmobile motor I would say judging from the piston wash that this motor was ran fat as a pig, but I dont run nitro through my snowmobile motors so I dont know what effects that would have............open to educated opinions please.

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05-30-2012 04:12 AM  6 years agoPost 46
rotor head33

rrApprentice

Louisiana-United States

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Is that actual burns on the head or is it a buildup? Are you using a fuel with synthetic that looks like old school castor gunk. I still think lean judging by how mashed up the gp wires were

Power is nothing without control

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05-30-2012 04:29 AM  6 years agoPost 47
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

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Those pictures are a sure sign of the start of a series of lean runs and most likely the reason that you are shooting plugs.

If you continue running the engine like this you will end up with the piston cracking off just above the ring and a scored liner on the exhaust side. If you were actually running the engine fat as you describe it, the piston and cylinder head would be clean with a little light brown on it. I have a YS that has 4 gallons through it and I put it up about a year ago and it looks nothing like the Hyper in the photos.

TM

Delayed Response Operator Not Engaged
AMA SECTION 336 = Good
Drones = EVIL

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05-30-2012 04:32 AM  6 years agoPost 48
rotor head33

rrApprentice

Louisiana-United States

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Definitely shows uneven burn (detonation apparantly) on just one side from the go wire all jammed to one side

Power is nothing without control

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05-30-2012 04:53 AM  6 years agoPost 49
HotsHabit

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Idaho

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Well, I am totally at a loss here, the head is not new so the color there could be from before the rebuild, but the piston is brand new and the insides of a motor tell no lies.

While I have it apart, should I put in another shim or put it back the way it was and just richen things up?

The part I dont understand is I have had lean runs with motors before and they always have that telltale high idle/wont come off the pipe sound when you chop the throttle, my motors dont do that and they always pass the finger/backplate test, guess my finger must be dead. I do have a temp gauge and the temps usually sit about 245 or lower on the head fins, and about 105-110 on the backplate.

Im just trying to figure out why the plugs and the insides show lean but all the characteristics of how they run show fat. I have been running nitro heli's since my concept 30 in the early 90's so its not like I am new to these engines.

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05-30-2012 05:01 AM  6 years agoPost 50
rotor head33

rrApprentice

Louisiana-United States

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i mean I'm just spitballing since my piston head shows discoloration from a lean run but i never had the glow plugs foul like that, all i did was turn the gov off and tune the motor again then leave it a little (click or two) richer than optimal not so rich it kills fuel economy or kills the motor but just enough for safe warning. try and richen it up some and see if it makes a difference?

Power is nothing without control

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05-30-2012 05:02 AM  6 years agoPost 51
PilotPin

rrApprentice

Indiana -- USA

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My guess is you are running very rich at idle and very lean at high speed. To run a 2200 head speed and 18700 engine rpm it couldn't be on the rich side at high speed. Does it idle the same before you take off and after you run it hard and land? How does it transition after you run it hard and land?

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05-30-2012 05:10 AM  6 years agoPost 52
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

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Shimming is not going to help this. It's a mixture issue. You should take the temps just under the cylinder head not on the head because the head will dissipate heat faster than the area behind the cylinder head, the cylinder head is too unstable to use as a temp guide. Using a temp gun is only a guide, often times if the engine will tolerate a little hotter/leaner run and the transitions are good and everything is working well I'll run it on the hot side. When I do it though I'm listening for the telltale sound of detonation. If you run it so that it is lean enough to get the rpm you want in an unloaded state it's going to really go lean when the engine starts to load up. A gov won't help that.

At your altitude I would make sure that a gov isn't in the way of properly tuning this engine. I think you will need some headroom so you can run the engine rich enough to keep it cool and not burn the piston top and head which should encourage you to run on the rich side.

TM

Delayed Response Operator Not Engaged
AMA SECTION 336 = Good
Drones = EVIL

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05-30-2012 05:12 AM  6 years agoPost 53
rotor head33

rrApprentice

Louisiana-United States

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it could very well be going super lean between transitions during maneuvers when unloaded

Power is nothing without control

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05-30-2012 05:14 AM  6 years agoPost 54
HotsHabit

rrVeteran

Idaho

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Idle is a little fatter at startup then it is after a hard run. The motor always transitions down to idle quickly after a hard run of tic tocs and such, that is usually my test to see if its lean is to do a bunch of tic tocs and them immediatly land and check the backplate and see if it goes straight to idle or if it tries to hang on the pipe.

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05-30-2012 05:36 AM  6 years agoPost 55
PilotPin

rrApprentice

Indiana -- USA

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You said it doesn't transition good from idle through to high speed. If it's tuned properly it would transition smoothly from idle to high speed. I would retune it so that it transitions smoothly. It would be a place to start.

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05-30-2012 05:44 AM  6 years agoPost 56
rotor head33

rrApprentice

Louisiana-United States

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For kicks I'd also lower the headspeed. Tune without a gov to get a true tune then set the gov a little lower so it's not having to stress the motor as much to achieve 2200

Power is nothing without control

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05-30-2012 06:31 AM  6 years agoPost 57
MANCHA

rrVeteran

Cabo San Lucas, Baja- Mexico

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Raptor 50 running at 2,200 rpms !
OS50 !
Head temperature at 245F !

I understand some of you may assure you fly with same conditions but my experience is:

1,950rpms, OS hypers always ran with 15% nitro and temperature between 195F and 203F with excellent results ( for 4 years )

If you have semi-new bearings, new fuel lines & burned head then all you need to do is adjust your needles; you are running very lean !

My 2 cents.

MANCHA

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05-30-2012 12:10 PM  6 years agoPost 58
MikeyD_From_Indy

rrApprentice

Carmel, In

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Going back to the inspection of the glow plugs, it looks to me that the element is being sucked out. This could be an indication the plug is looking for more heat or rich in the powerband. I would hypothesis that this might also explain why the element is gravitating to one side.

The breakdown of the motor looks decent to me. I cannot tell by the picture, but if you have a peppered look and or a sandpaper feel on the head or in the bowl this would indicate the motor being run to lean. I do not see that.

Perhaps your setup is to rich for this particular plug to be happy? By setup I mean the combination of head shim, fuel,and needle setting.

Can you drop the head?, if so maybe start there?

Just some random thoughts.

Mikey D

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05-30-2012 01:00 PM  6 years agoPost 59
airdodger

rrElite Veteran

Johnston USA

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Lean for sure, when you see burned oil on the piston top you have started to penetrate the boundary layer that protects the parts. It looks like the onset of detonation. I would shim the head to lower the gas temps in the squish area. Retune, open the needle a lot and watch the plug as you go leaner. You may have ruined the ring if it got too hot, and you did the piston wrong, so if you have trouble tuning keep that in mind. Try tuning with the gov off and hitting throttle hold it should drop instantly, instantly. If you wait to check on the ground it's too long. That is my opinion.

Chris

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05-30-2012 01:18 PM  6 years agoPost 60
JPhillips

rrVeteran

Waco, TX

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Lean, lean, LEAN! That equates to hot, hot, HOT! 245 degrees is baking dude. I'd like to see the ring because the way that piston looks, its beginning to show signs of lean/hot runs. That's my educated opinion.

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