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HomeRC & PowerAircraftHelicopterEngines Plugs Mufflers Fuel › Eating glow plugs like candy
05-29-2012 01:57 AM  6 years agoPost 1
HotsHabit

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Idaho

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I am running a 55 hz and and 2 Hyper 50's, I am running them all rich enough to still be getting tail kicks every now and then. I have a decent smoke cloud out of them all. I get around 4 to 5 flights per plug. I am running Magnum 30 Heli plus. The 55 is about 4 gallons old, one of the 50's is a new rebuild piston/ring/sleeve, and about 2 gallons old and the other 50 is about 5 or 6 gallons old.

It isn't completely blowing the wires out of them, the wire is just getting pushed to one side and breaking, will post some pictures here in a bit.

All 3 motors are in Raptor 50's running 8.5 gear ratio and I am running them all on multi-govs with a head speed of 2200 rpm.

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05-29-2012 02:07 AM  6 years agoPost 2
Matt Wheeler

rrNovice

Fort Benning GA

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Are you running silicon at the muffler joints? That stuff can reek havoc on plugs.

Matt Wheeler
Sappers Lead the Way

Sappers Lead the Way

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05-29-2012 02:26 AM  6 years agoPost 3
Ravenhyper50

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Canada's Capital

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Sounds to me, time for some new bearings!

Bearings can be starting to deteriorate and can be the cause of your plugs going. 30% nitro can kill bearings fast if you don't take all the necessary precautions(eg.. burn all the fuel out of the engine after shut down, Make sure no trapped gases are in the tank, engine and pipe) after run oil heavy, keep in a non humid environment if possible. Nitric acid gas is what causes the destruction as a byproduct of burning high nitro fuels. Rust is also another major factor.

If you do all of the above precautions, your bearings and engine in total will last much longer than 4 gallons before a rebuild.

Cheers,
Raven

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05-29-2012 02:26 AM  6 years agoPost 4
airdodger

rrElite Veteran

Johnston USA

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The coil pushed to the side could be trying to start a slightly flooded engine or detonation. Bearings will definitely cause that too.

That high nitro causes problems is a myth. The pylon guys use 50% and don't have problems. The methanol is hygroscopic and the problem.

Chris

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05-29-2012 02:35 AM  6 years agoPost 5
HotsHabit

rrVeteran

Idaho

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New bearings in one 50 and the other 50 and 55 have the magnum bushing, so bearings can be ruled out here. No silicone at all, metal to metal on the muffler seal.

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05-29-2012 02:45 AM  6 years agoPost 6
HotsHabit

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Idaho

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As you can see from the last photo it appears things are running plenty rich, finger test on backplate is right and max head temp via temp guage is 240.

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05-29-2012 03:36 AM  6 years agoPost 7
Santiago P

rrProfessor

South West, Ohio

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HotsHabit

ALL plug coils move a bit and then they settle. For the most part they tent to move to the hotter spot. If you run too cold, some coils will pull completely out, in if too hot.

This plug: ran way too rich, OR under compressed.

I too run THE SAME FUEL on my OS50 and OS91s without one issue.

If anything you may be too rich, specially if is kicking.

Can you tell me

1. At what ground elevation do you fly?
2. How many shims are in the 50, and in the 55?
3. Do the engines transition smoothtly from idle?
4. What plugs? OS#8 Enya 3, Enya 4?

Santiago
Magnum Fuel Representative

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05-29-2012 03:44 AM  6 years agoPost 8
HotsHabit

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Idaho

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MoneyPitVictim,

Elevation is 4600 feet.

Shims in all machines are set as stock at 1 shim per motor.

Engines seem to hesitate from idle to hover, running on the rich side for sure because I was convinced I was waxing the plugs by running too lean.

Plugs are Enya #3's but I tried some OS #8 because I wondered if maybe I had run into a bad batch of the enya 3s.

Fuel is fresh from this year, just had it delivered to me about 2 months ago.

I have been running everything on the rich side and I get tail kicking quite often as I am hesitant to lean them out too far. I was also wondering if I am over taching the motors.

Thanks for any help you can give me. Glow plugs are starting to get spendy........lol

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05-29-2012 03:45 AM  6 years agoPost 9
Helipilot01

rrApprentice

ColliervilleTn

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It looks like the plugs in the back ground are Enya plugs, so it looks like you have the right plug. My experience is that the Enya #3 is the best plug to run with 30%. I know everyone has their favorite fuel too, mine is cool power but I'm sure we can find what is causing you to go through plugs so fast. I change my plugs on my YS50 with cool power fuel from feeling guilty and almost never from need. I can go for many gallons of 3D without changing a plug.

I'm not familiar with your engine but it was common with the OS engines we ran in competition to run about .030 squish band when running 30% fuel to prevent detionation. Squish band is the difference between the top of the piston when its at top dead center and the bottom of the head. Your probably around .021 now. This will run ok on lower nitro fuels but with the higher nitro and higher oil content normally found in 30% fuels, its not enough.

One other possibility is you can try running a cooler plug to delay the ignition and the on set of detionation. I have done this in the past on the old OS 61sx engines and it made it run like a sewing machine. This is the easiest to try but my bet is on rasing the squish band to .030.

The other suggestion to change the bearings has merit too. Normally bearing problems show up too with inconsistant needle valve settings.

Hope this helps,

Mike

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05-29-2012 04:10 AM  6 years agoPost 10
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

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At the gearing you are running the engine is turning 18,700. I would drop the headspeed to 2000 and this nonsense will stop.

TM

Delayed Response Operator Not Engaged
AMA SECTION 336 = Good
Drones = EVIL

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05-29-2012 04:24 AM  6 years agoPost 11
Santiago P

rrProfessor

South West, Ohio

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I second TMoore comment, 18700 is just TOO HIGH for those engines.
17500 to 18000 is tops.

You are not overcompressed, The DS fuel likes compression. The plugs are pulling out and breaking means they are too cold.

For your elevation, one .016 is ok, and I would even try going to a single .008in shim.
Enya 3 is a great plug.

santiago

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05-29-2012 04:28 AM  6 years agoPost 12
HotsHabit

rrVeteran

Idaho

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Helipilot01,

I have tried running cooler plugs as in the enya 4 and os 8 and had the same results, also went hotter to an A3 and it didnt help. As I stated in my last post, bearings can not be an issue as the they are all new and two of the machines have the magnum glide bearing. If it was just one machine then I could consider that an option but its all 3 machines.

The one consitent thing with all the machines is I tune them all the same and they all run the same fuel and same head speed.

TMoore,

Not to argue with your advice but I ran these headspeeds all last season and dont remember having this issue. I would hate to go back down to 2000 rpm head speed as the machines loses its "pop" at that rpm. But I have been wondering if this was ultimately causing me problems and wondering if backing it off to 2150 or 2100 would help things out.

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05-29-2012 04:31 AM  6 years agoPost 13
HotsHabit

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Idaho

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MoneyPitVictim

I am running the Heli plus, not the DS fuel. I was hoping not to hear that my headspeed was causing the problems but in the back of my mind I was thinking it might be.

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05-29-2012 04:36 AM  6 years agoPost 14
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

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You are at 4600 Feet which is about 400 feet below where Buzz flies at in Denver. 2100 would be a better rpm for this setup as it would allow a little head room for the engine and not force the gov to run WOT all the time. I would probably look at the piston tops and check the ring as well. Magnum Plus is full 30% Nitro and at your altitude you will have to be lean to make power as it is not the same as running at sea level or a little above. All the symptoms point to high rpm as this is what usually will distort glow plug elements.

TM

Delayed Response Operator Not Engaged
AMA SECTION 336 = Good
Drones = EVIL

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05-29-2012 04:48 AM  6 years agoPost 15
Santiago P

rrProfessor

South West, Ohio

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I am running the Heli plus, not the DS fuel. I was hoping not to hear that my headspeed was causing the problems but in the back of my mind I was thinking it might be.
My bad, disregard the shim up or down notes.

.
And again, what he ^^^ said.

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05-29-2012 06:39 AM  6 years agoPost 16
HotsHabit

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Idaho

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So basically I need to shut the head speed down to 2100 max and lean the mixture out, correct?

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05-29-2012 10:01 AM  6 years agoPost 17
punkin71

rrApprentice

illinois

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Agreed. too high head speed.

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05-29-2012 10:33 AM  6 years agoPost 18
DS 8717

rrProfessor

Here wishing i was somewhere else

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Cant tell from the picture but is the element dull or still shinny,if its dull then it is too lean at some point in you throttle,even though it might not show up at anything lower than wide open. Even with the new fuel system it will lean out a little bit as the fuel level drops.It sounds to me that the mixture is too lean at some point in the range. for some reason.Try some different fuel if possible to eliminate that possibility.I run 2100 headspeed with 8.7 ratio and dont have that problem.my engines are slightly rich with a full tank but but comes in good when the tank gets lower on fuel.

YOU ONLY LIVE ONCE..IF YOU LIVE IT RIGHT THATS ALL YOU NEED

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05-29-2012 11:45 AM  6 years agoPost 19
airdodger

rrElite Veteran

Johnston USA

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Looks like you are running hot to me, burned oil on the plug and the element looks frosted. You have nothing to lose by richening it up that would be my first try. Next would be a shim as nitro does not just fire because of a heat source , compression is also in play. But the real question is what changed from last year to this year, as you said all last year you ran the same with no issues. Did you rebuild all the engines this year, or?

Chris

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05-29-2012 11:51 AM  6 years agoPost 20
StephenIII

rrNovice

Boonton, NJ USA

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What type of glow plug driver are you using? All of your motors are doing the same thing. It is not the motors. Check your glow plug driver.

SJW

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