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Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › Noise / tail wag issue with my JR Vibe .50
04-08-2012 10:24 PM  9 years ago
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coolgabsi

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Plano TX

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Noise / tail wag issue with my JR Vibe .50

Watch at YouTube

Ok maidened it, it was great! Did 3 flights... Rock solid! 

Yesterday I fire it up, and I notice a slow wag in tail. I downed the gain on my tx, nope.. Again the same .  The tail lost about 30-45 degree authority while doing a fast fff stall roll. Like gaping fast forward pulling up on elevator stalling kind of an rolling inverted. Stupid thing lost some tail. 

Three flights all the same issue. Can't figure out what. It's fastened very tight, and as I said it want there before! Help!

let me know what else info I can give to help troubleshoot..

thanks!
People call me crash master... for a reason.. :P :D
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04-09-2012 03:21 AM  9 years ago
coolgabsi

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Plano TX

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ANY TAKERS???? lolPeople call me crash master... for a reason.. :P :D
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04-09-2012 11:07 AM  9 years ago
mdu6

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Montreal

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Your video and description do not provide that much information to help in finding your problem (beside the fact that you are FBL)

- First build or rebuild ?
- If rebuild - was it flying fine before
- What kind of gyro are you using

- On the Vibe 50 2 things can come into play
1) the 'hum'
2) start shaft/clutch stack alignment

You also say
It's fastened very tight
Are you talking about your gyro ? If this is the case you may want to review this.

So - provide a bit more info and we will try to help.
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04-09-2012 02:44 PM  9 years ago
coolgabsi

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Plano TX

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ok... some history..

Vibe 50 was bought this january from HF user used..

It was Flybarred then, and had to change some shafts, and stuff to get it maidened on the flybarred setup. It was rock solid with all servos working fine, and no problems at all. I broke in my os 50sx-h rebuilt in this heli...

It flew great, and then I put a RJX FBL head on it, and a micro- beastx system last month. It flew great.. I maidened the beast x, had to increase some cyclic gain, but after that, it was all good. HELI ON RAILS LIKE SERIOUSLY!

Then, yesterday, out of nowhere, I fuel it... (i went from 15percent to 30 percent fuel, so the only change was it was 30 percent fuel.), and I fire it up, this noise shows up... I thought something rubbing on the gears, and or the TT gears failing.. NOPE checked it all.. everything was perfectly fine..

one thing which is not in the video also is the fact that I flew with the tail wag for a bout 2 tanks doing some inverted circuits and all.. the tail wag is slow and not as prominent. But, did loose some 30 degrees of tail authority when doing a hard collective manuever..

hope that this explains a bit more! sorry about not giving enough info before

And the gyro, yes, is the one fastened. But that hasnt changed since the last time I maidened and flew it, so i dont think that should be very important..

Now, when you talk about the "HUM" and the start shaft, clutch stack alignment.. what is that? I am honestly lost there. PLease let me know!

thanks!
People call me crash master... for a reason.. :P :D
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04-09-2012 02:57 PM  9 years ago
BarracudaHockey

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Jacksonville FL

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Did you richen the needle when you changed fuels?

Stock plastic tail blades?
Andy
AMA 77227
http://www.jaxrc.com
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04-09-2012 03:09 PM  9 years ago
coolgabsi

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Plano TX

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I was running a very rich engine I think when I was running 15percent, so I kinda figured that going 30 percent will level the field. I am not sure if i checked the temps after flight.. honestly. I remember checking the other bird for its temperatures.. but not this one..

Tail blades.. NO.. i read a lot about this, and I put KBDD (i think ~80 mm).. the ones that are 550-600 size.. not 600-700 size.. cause I had read about the tail hub blade holders being 90 size, and causing faliures because of large size..
People call me crash master... for a reason.. :P :D
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04-09-2012 07:06 PM  9 years ago
Shortman

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Portland, Oregon

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I am flying my JR NEX E8 which is similiar but electric, just a couple tips, regrease thrust bearings in the tail, I notice after about 30 flights the grease is all but gone... and second double check the linkage on the tail servo and make sure it is not binding and is free of any interaction. I had a slight wag in my heli show up a few times, and it's usually the thrust bearings running out of grease and one time it was because the rod for my tail servo moved slightly in the tailboom holders and it had a little ever so slight bend in the rod.Team JR
Team ThunderPower RC
Boca Bearings
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04-09-2012 07:19 PM  9 years ago
coolgabsi

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Plano TX

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Shortman -- I will do that. the thrust bearings you say are the ones that seat the TT gears?

I will definitely check..
People call me crash master... for a reason.. :P :D
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04-10-2012 01:59 AM  9 years ago
punkin71

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illinois

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Think I am having the same problem as you, not noticeable @ spool up like yours, only in flight but not near as bad. Torque tube gears @ the rear seem to have more backlash than they should but being this is my 1st TT heli its hard to say. Wish I could post video...
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04-10-2012 07:31 AM  9 years ago
Shortman

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Portland, Oregon

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coolgabsi
Shortman -- I will do that. the thrust bearings you say are the ones that seat the TT gears?
I will definitely check..
The thrust bearings are in the tail blade grips, they are the bearings that come in 3 pieces and have the ball bearings exposed on one side... you want to pack those with grease as well as the ones in the main blade grips. Gear mesh is also important, I did the paper trick with a piece of paper and it seems to work great. Just take a piece of paper and cut it so it can fit between the gears without getting jammed, the paper should be able to go through as you turn the gears by hand and it should make nice SHARP bends in the paper, or you can set the mesh by putting a piece of paper between the gears and then press the gears together with the paper still between the gears to get a good mesh.
Team JR
Team ThunderPower RC
Boca Bearings
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04-10-2012 11:23 AM  9 years ago
mdu6

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Montreal

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Thanks for the added information.

Now since we received it - it's time to try and give some pieces of advice which is not easy on a problem like this.

Since it appears you only change fuel from the time it was flying OK to now - I would suspect you might just be turning a higher head speed - even the noise at idle could only be this - as idle will normally be higher at 30%.

So let start with a simple solution (that's how I normally tackle these problems - start with easy things first) - get someone to tach your current head speed (for reference purposes) and then just lower your head speed a bit and try again.

If the problem goes away but the lower head speed is bothering you we will try and fix this after.
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04-10-2012 03:14 PM  9 years ago
coolgabsi

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Plano TX

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Ok.. after a couple hours on the bench last night.. here is what I found out...

Shortman: I did open the blade grips, all the way. The thrust bearings were ok.. not the best condition. I cleaned them as much as I could, and I put it back together after putting high speed bearing oil in it..I did not have grease so i didnt do that. I will get that, and will pack the thrust bearings with it. The gear mesh was actually pretty good. No un-nessecary moving things around cause, It was free. but i did notice it was loud.. My bearings were running dry i think. I did oil them and all got quite-er. The gear mesh is good.

mdu6: I am running a multigov pro.. so its tached perfectly at 2000rpm. Can't go any higher for sure.

Now.. as far as the engine tune is concerned. i took the engine down, to see for a loose head, a scored piston / ring, a stretched out pin.. something burnt / broken.... All good.. Engine was good. no scoring. Perfectly fine. I did notice, that the needle setting I was on was a little under one full turn on the high.. ummmmm i think thats too lean. :P

Changes in the conditions since the last time : It was less humid ( where does the needle move for that??? )
It was a bit hotter... 65 degrees when i maidened it, and 80 this day. (i think i am supposed to lean the engine 2 clicks for that right?)
Fuel percentage changed from 15 percent to 30 percent (i need richen it right? how much ???)

Also, one of my tail blades was a little tighter than the other. I am not sure how tight I need to run these. I have heard different theories.. some say if too tight, it wont center, which sounds ok, and others say that if you run too loose they will lag when load is applied.
well.. what is it? lol ? :P .. The engine is mounted back in, and the bearings oiled.. tail blades are tight enough that they are not falling in their own weight, but just touching them will move them, still not make them fall..

Now tell me anything else i should check.

after mounting the engine back.. I made sure to align everything, I did notice that the throttle link was a bit "shorter". I had to get it out two turns.. dont understand how that would change.. looking at how the engine is mounted on the frame.. anywaz..
phew that was a lot! lol..

LET ME KNOW!

And Punkin71: I am not sure what backlash you should be looking for. a video would be great!! are you running vibe 50 ?
People call me crash master... for a reason.. :P :D
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04-10-2012 10:25 PM  9 years ago
punkin71

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illinois

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Yeah, I bought a used vibe 50 airframe not long ago. dont have anything to record video with, guess I need to get on that.
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04-10-2012 11:27 PM  9 years ago
coolgabsi

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Plano TX

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One thing you should know about vibe 50 is man!! it's a perfect bird!! Lol

Except for the fact that the parts are a bit pricey.. But apart from that, it's like having a train in the air... Always on rails!! It's beautiful!!

You'll love it once you get it all dialed in!
People call me crash master... for a reason.. :P :D
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04-11-2012 12:34 AM  9 years ago
weaselbean

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Joplin,Mo 64801

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Check all your gears sounds like a tooth missing somewhere? Also maybe a bearing in your motor has came apart? I had two torque tube bearings in my vibe 50 before my tail vibes went away. Cheers!Quit crying about your airplane and fly already!!!
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04-12-2012 04:41 AM  9 years ago
ch-47c

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san jose, ca

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I thought I heard clicking appx at the 50sec point. It sounds like a tooth missing off the spur gear or bevel gear at the front of the tailboom. The spur gear is the weakest link in the drivetrain. When you took your canopy off I heard a rattle which sounds like metal banging in the clutch area. Mine has done it since new and it's fine.

I use 92mm tail rotor blades and the hum is gone. 80mm are really small. I've never had a hub fail. It's the same as the 90 size Vibe. I did not mods but have used Radix and Align blades with great results with either.
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04-12-2012 05:06 AM  9 years ago
coolgabsi

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Plano TX

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thats exactly what i thought.. considering I actually stripped one doing an auto while my blades touched the ground..

I inspected it inside out this time, there was no gear missing.. It sounded just like the missing gear or a bearing broken inside the engine..
I had installed rc-bearings bearing in the front and back. had like 6 flights total.. still, opened the engine and checked it all.. all looked good. I am sure it was bearings too dry.. and just i donno.. I am hoping to fly it tomorrow if it doesnt rain, and see if the tail wag has gone away.. also, ts not in the video.. i flew two full tanks after this, with that tail wag...

I think i was a little lean on the high needle, going a bit rich will also helpp getting the wags fixed..

Really appreciate the input though..
People call me crash master... for a reason.. :P :D
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04-12-2012 06:08 PM  9 years ago
weaselbean

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Joplin,Mo 64801

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Like I said if you still got a tail wag turn your beastx tail lock gain down say if it's on high? Switch it to medium then turn up the Tx gain if it still does it try low on beastx tail lock gain then turn up your Tx gain some more It worked for a velocity 50 I had but in a hard fast inverted funnel it would still wag a bit it never was perfect I was also using a Futaba BLS251 servo I hope you get this sorted out GOOD LUCK!!!Quit crying about your airplane and fly already!!!
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