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04-05-2012 05:13 AM  9 years ago
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love for scale

rrVeteran

Omaha, Nebraska U.S.A.

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hh vs rate mode
can someone tell methe differances? pros cons?
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04-05-2012 01:13 PM  9 years ago
kcordell

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O Fallon, MO

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HH: Nose stays where its pointed.
Rate: Nose goes to the wind.
HH mode makes it much easier to fly backwards (although Curtis could do it extremely well when we only had rate mode gyros).

Pretty much everyone uses HH mode these days. Only important issue is to trim the model mechanically perfect in rate mode before putting into HH mode.
The gyro will see any trim changes and try to counteract the trim changes and be all over the place.
Team Synergy/Rail, Team Scorpion, YS Engines, VelTye
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04-05-2012 01:13 PM  9 years ago
Wayne Parrish

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Apex,NC,USA

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KCORDEL,He's talking about using it also with a scale ship I'm sure and the large scale ships use rate better. Call Joe Howard and let him explain why HH will wipe out your servo on the large scale ships,such as my 1/4 scale Bell 47 G3 . He can explain it much better than I . I have been using rate mode on mine for over three years and no tail servo issues,so I will continue to use it. Have a great day. WP
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04-05-2012 01:48 PM  9 years ago
BarracudaHockey

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Jacksonville FL

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I fly heading hold on my scale stuff.

Though we havent spoken on the issue I would have to think the lower head speed makes the tail slower making the servo work harder. I'll have to discuss it next time I talk to him.
Andy
AMA 77227
http://www.jaxrc.com
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04-05-2012 02:40 PM  9 years ago
love for scale

rrVeteran

Omaha, Nebraska U.S.A.

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I fly hh on. Most that I have had. I may be doing a vario ec-135, which vario recommends rate mode. Never really flown in rate mode. When I would use rate mode the tail would be everywhere, in hh would hold still. So I decided that ratye mode just sucked! Now I realize I wasn't setting up my tail as good as I thought! Hh mode can mask a poorly set up tail! So I'm gonna practice in rate mode. Just wanted a good definition of each, or a few examples.
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04-05-2012 05:17 PM  9 years ago
Wayne Parrish

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Apex,NC,USA

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I used rate on my Var, Bell Ranger and for over three years on my 1/4 scale 47 and love it. It does make the servo work much harder in HH mode and you will lose them. If you set the rate mode up correctly it flies great,BUT,if you've only flown HH you nay not like it. HH takes all the work out but the heli flies more scalelike in rate.JMO and others.
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04-05-2012 07:14 PM  9 years ago
payne1967

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uk

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its interesting to hear the servo troubles with large scale and hh
my 1/3 scale r22 that came to me secondhand has flown without any faults on the tail for the past 2 years
i don't know how old the servo is and i don't know if it was flown in rate or hh mode before

but i do agree a scale model flies with more grace in rate mode

most of the time i use hh in scale
but come comp time i use rate mode
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04-05-2012 08:05 PM  9 years ago
love for scale

rrVeteran

Omaha, Nebraska U.S.A.

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So how would control inputs differ during hover, forward flight and turns? Greg
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04-05-2012 09:29 PM  9 years ago
wifeorheli

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reno, nevada usa

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rate mode whats rate mode lol. I dont see any benifit in flying in rate ESPECIALLY 3d flightNovarossi Motors U.S.A
www.PLanethobby.com
Team GrandRc.com
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ZRC U.S.A. "PushGlo, SwitchGlo"
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04-06-2012 01:31 AM  9 years ago
BarracudaHockey

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Jacksonville FL

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If you're turning you can be lazy and not coordinate your turn in rate mode, the tail will weathervane.

Or you can use a little rudder and make it look quite scale like.
Andy
AMA 77227
http://www.jaxrc.com
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04-07-2012 05:27 AM  9 years ago
Wayne Parrish

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Apex,NC,USA

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wifeorheli, We are using rate for "scale" flying and since its scale there would be no 3D .
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06-15-2012 02:27 PM  9 years ago
menace

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Sydney, Australia

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i have flown helis in Rate mode, scale and 3D (the 3D ones were revo mixed, for those playing at home) and i prefer the loose tail look of Rate on Scale birds, due to it being very 'Scale-Like"

A well setup Rate mode is quite good, and the model wont be swinging around all the time with the wind.
!boo!
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06-15-2012 02:34 PM  9 years ago
love for scale

rrVeteran

Omaha, Nebraska U.S.A.

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How do I achieve a well set up rate mode? It never holds no matter what I do! Greg
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06-15-2012 03:28 PM  9 years ago
modtron

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Oxford. UK

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On what model ? - if it's the Vario Ec135 that you mention, then it may well be the tail itself which is not that un-common.

modtron
Oxford UK
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06-15-2012 03:33 PM  9 years ago
love for scale

rrVeteran

Omaha, Nebraska U.S.A.

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Every heli I have ever owned!! The ec-135 is not biult yet, and therte are a few tricks to making that tail work right, and it is possible to do HH with it. I recently tried out my trex 600 in rate mode, that my practice ship. seems the tail just won't hold. When I lift off, so I end up hitting HH.
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06-15-2012 04:00 PM  9 years ago
modtron

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Oxford. UK

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On all of my own machines - from 91 size and turbine, I only use rate mode and Futaba gyro's.

I set the servo arm to be square to the body when at middle position and then adjust the linkage so that there is around 20-25 mm distance between the tips of the tail blades when folded back together.
This then becomes an approximate neutral position.

I then adjust the limit settings in the gyro for left and right travel.

I would normally start with a rate gain of between 65%-80% depending on the model.
At the same time, I would set an expo value of around 60% to soften the mid stick position.

Now I'm ready to go fly and trim as normal.

Depending on the feel of the tail, I may change the value of rate gain and the expo to get a soft feel, which is what I personally prefer for scale flying.

If it won't lock in then, there has to be something wrong with the linkage or speed set up.

This is not my own set up, but something I learnt from the Japanese a long time ago when I copied some of Hashimoto's model set-ups.
He was using up to 90% expo and very high gains on the gyro and that was for FAI flying at the time - not that much different to scale flying when using FAI hovering settings.

modtron
Oxford UK
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06-15-2012 05:32 PM  9 years ago
love for scale

rrVeteran

Omaha, Nebraska U.S.A.

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Higher gains will mean less weathervaneduring turns correct?
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06-15-2012 06:15 PM  9 years ago
modtron

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Oxford. UK

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I've never relied on the tail just following on its own.

Being "old school FAI and pre HH gyro's", we would spend a lot of time adjusting the tail servo arm, linkage and even blades to achieve the required feel or response.

From there we would learn to fly with co-ordinated movement of control input to get the required flight performance.
Even now, I still fly aircraft using co-ordinated rudder in turns to balance the yaw.

I personally do not like the feel of HH on the tail and have no interest in 3D, but that's just me.

I still prefer to fly ALL controls regardless of type of machine being flown.

I find it is a case of careful balance - enough gain to damp any uncontrolled movement and then expo to smooth the stick input response.
I would also stress that each different flight mode or condition would have its own gain and expo values.

modtron
Oxford UK
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