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04-02-2012 12:01 AM  7 years ago
Topic Vote0Post 1
unclejane

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santa fe, NM, USA

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NoBAR
You guys should try this. I put my FBL head in the 700e to stop the wobbles and just went to the field with it as-is. Here the challenge is keeping it out of the dirt (winds about 20mph right now), but towards the end of the last pack I could almost keep it stiller in a hover than with stabilization....

Kind of interesting....

LS
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04-02-2012 12:05 AM  7 years ago
wrongler

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Brewerton, New York

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I tried nobar "Twern't Much Fun" I did manage to take off and land with no damage.Bill Whittaker
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04-02-2012 02:45 AM  7 years ago
unclejane

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santa fe, NM, USA

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Holy smokes... I have to say this has been the most fun I've had with a heli in a long long time.

I'm definitely hooked on NoBAR now... My electric is now fun to fly again...

The main thing I noticed, oddly enough, is how it's better in the hover. It has a more natural/predictable behavior around center stick. I'm not sure why that is, I suppose it's because the gyros aren't there anymore always trying to maintain an attitude and maybe even interfering with your inputs.

But basically, by the 4th or 5th pack, I was hovering in a 20mph wind, nose in, better than I was able to hover it when the BeastX was hooked to the cyclic. Yeah, I was holding the stick in a corner to do that because of the horrific spring wind, lol, but it was markedly more natural than when there was a FBL unit on it.

Basically, you really have to fly the rotor disk without the gyros on it. But it's very predictable and I found myself getting used to it towards the end.

Definitely flops around without pilot input, but I really liked how natural it felt. Wind effects are _very_ pronounced so you have to hold a lot of correction in, tho.

So I definitely say try it. For me, it's been a total blast all afternoon even in a really stiff gusty wind...

LS
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04-02-2012 03:53 AM  7 years ago
hootowl

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Garnet Valley, Pa.

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So you are saying you ditch flybarless by setting to nobar and use a flybar? What a concept!Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep
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04-02-2012 04:07 AM  7 years ago
unclejane

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santa fe, NM, USA

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No, this is NoBAR with a FBL head (tail gyro only). I tried it just for grins to see what it was like, and I actually really like it.

True, I won't be doing any precision flying with it like that, but it's so far a lot of fun...

LS
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04-02-2012 04:28 AM  7 years ago
hootowl

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Garnet Valley, Pa.

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Oh I misreadWolves don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep
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04-02-2012 06:38 AM  7 years ago
spiderco

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Henderson, Nevada

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How's it handle during forward flight? I imagine if you have properly weighted blades it should be pretty stable. I might give this a try.fly til its dry
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04-02-2012 11:09 AM  7 years ago
unclejane

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santa fe, NM, USA

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Well like I said the wind effects on the rotor attitude are really pronounced, so it pitches up and to the left in FF. but the control response is very positive without the gyros. I was hovering it in a stiff wind (about 15mph gusting to about 25) and had to hold stick to the upper right with wind to the nose (nose in) and lower left with wind to the tail.

I'm just so happy to compensate for wind instead of fight drifting gyros I don't care lol. It's very predictable so you get used to it fairly quick.

But I really like the natural feel of it. Yeah it's a stick-and-rudder heli and you have to really fly it, but it's not like flying a robot anymore.

The level of control is absolutely off the hook. Even with FAI blades, 30% expo and the swash down to 55%, full stick in any direction is positively scary lol...

I'd suggest some heavy blades and turning down the swash and rotor speed the first few flights. It's very responsive and takes getting used to...

LS
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04-02-2012 02:39 PM  7 years ago
paulpeffly

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Knightdale, NC US

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hmmm, interesting.. dont think it would be good for hard 3d thoughTeam HeliDirect
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04-02-2012 02:50 PM  7 years ago
unclejane

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santa fe, NM, USA

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Well I couldn't say. It would depend on how much of an investment it would require in terms of flying skill. Namely, manually taking care of what the heli does without the stabilization that the gyros normally do for you.

For truly precision flying, I'd bet the pilot workload is ultimately going to be too high judging by what I saw yesterday. I mean that rotor disk really does some strange ---- with wind and if you really want to be precise, I'll bet a stabilized one will always win....

OTOH, after 4 or 5 flights, I was able to hover it better than I'd been able to hover it with stabilization (BeastX) and in a 20mph+ wind. The behavior was more predictable to me in the hover than it was with the FBL unit.

My first slow pirouette however... can you say Holy Go Thataway Batman... But even those I was able to control fairly well towards the end of the day.

So I dunno. It may not be much more than a curiosity, but it sure is a lot of fun...

LS
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04-02-2012 02:57 PM  7 years ago
Richardmid1

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Leeds, England

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How about shorter servo arms for better resolution and even more expo? I run 25-30% anyway let alone without any stabalisation! 60% of the time, it works every time!
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04-02-2012 03:08 PM  7 years ago
unclejane

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santa fe, NM, USA

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That's how I have mine setup, basically for FBL. The pushpull links on the inner servo horn holes and the bellcranks on the inner holes.

I also use Curtis V2 FAI 710's and turned the swash down to about 55% in elev. and ail. (don't know what the actual pitch setting is tho) and 30% negative expo on the cyclic. The head is the align V1 FBL head.

Calmed down any more than that, tho, and I think it'd be a little too mushy.

Basically, I think if you just took your current FBL heli and set it up with regular CCPM in the radio, it should work fine. Unless you really have it setup with a lot of cyclic, just a set of FAI blades or some expo and you'd be ok.

And don't try it in a 25mph wind like I did. You'll be holding the stick in a corner a bit after liftoff going "oh lordy what'd I get myself into, oh lordy...." at first After a couple of flights, that'll feel normal, just not on the very first one...

LS
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04-02-2012 10:45 PM  7 years ago
heli-cuzz

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Pittston, Pa. USA

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I flew NOBAR for two years before converting to CGY750 fbl system.
I named it NOBAR as a pun towards Vbar users.
I had a lot of fun flying NOBAR style.
Here's a couple of my old NOBAR vids.
I flew with no expo and a traditional -12 0 +12 curve, also with max swash tilt at full throws.
Its much easier than most think it will be. It takes a few flights to get accustomed to flying that style.

NOBAR5

Watch at YouTube

NOBAR9

Watch at YouTube

Fury 55 NIB Furion6 CGY750 fbl helicopter-Frenzy CGY750 fbl nitro-Frenzy fbl NOBAR90
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04-02-2012 11:10 PM  7 years ago
RaptorRob

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hamlin P.A.

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I know you love the new power steering cuzz but man did i love to watch you fly nobar

Having people tell me at an event that you cant fly a flybarless head without a fbl system .... I would just point down to cuzz and say well how the hell is he doing it then lmao
no babe i swear i sold my other heli to buy this one :)
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04-02-2012 11:29 PM  7 years ago
unclejane

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santa fe, NM, USA

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Yepper, I've watched heli-cuzz's vids a bunch of times, part of my inspiration to go NOBAR.

Hoping to get a couple more flights in this evening with the 700E.

Probably because it's a fairly big ship, and it's actually pretty natural feeling, I didn't have too much trouble except maybe for the first flight.

But so far I'm hooked....

LS
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04-02-2012 11:31 PM  7 years ago
ticedoff8

rrKey Veteran

Morgan Hill, CA. USA

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Well, kids, sit right down and let Grandpa tell you about the GMP Legend - circa 1988 / 1990.
It had an option for flybar-less - no FBL controllers at the time.
Just some very basic stability systems - first gen solid-state tail gyro where just coming out, but many still had their Kraft & Futaba gyros (as in spinning wheel - hence "gyro".

They were a handful - but they flew pretty well.

Watch at YouTube

Watch at YouTube

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04-02-2012 11:46 PM  7 years ago
unclejane

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santa fe, NM, USA

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I should mention I am using a tail gyro - my BeastX with the cable for tail-only as a matter of fact. I'm not that radical...

Still I didn't realize how old-school NOBAR actually is. This is even before my time (My first heli was a shuttle ZXX with a piezo tail gyro IIRC. it had a flybar)... cool...

LS
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04-03-2012 12:06 AM  7 years ago
heli-cuzz

rrElite Veteran

Pittston, Pa. USA

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I know you love the new power steering cuzz but man did i love to watch you fly nobar

Having people tell me at an event that you cant fly a flybarless head without a fbl system .... I would just point down to cuzz and say well how the hell is he doing it then lmao
+1 LoL

Hey Rob, hope to see ya soon and get some roTors spinning.
Yepper, I've watched heli-cuzz's vids a bunch of times, part of my inspiration to go NOBAR.

Hoping to get a couple more flights in this evening with the 700E.

Probably because it's a fairly big ship, and it's actually pretty natural feeling, I didn't have too much trouble except maybe for the first flight.

But so far I'm hooked....
That's awesome unclejane. You're definitely going about the right way with the 700 sized NOBAR.
I remember my first NOBAR hover. I was terrified thinking the heli was gonna explode into a billion pieces. I couldn't believe how stable it was as you mentioned earlier. It does seem more natural.
I was hooked on fbl NOBAR after the first flight.
Now that my helicopters are systematically stabilized.... There's NO turning back.
Have fun with it.
Fury 55 NIB Furion6 CGY750 fbl helicopter-Frenzy CGY750 fbl nitro-Frenzy fbl NOBAR90
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04-03-2012 01:01 AM  7 years ago
unclejane

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santa fe, NM, USA

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I thought it was going to be really squirrely myself, but was pleasantly surprised at how natural and predictable it was, even with the heavy trim changes from the wind.

I guess I won't have to give up FBL after all. Up till now it's been 6 months of chasing drifts and changing tapes, etc. Now I don't have to worry about it lol.

Maybe one day I'll put my Vbar on something, but in the meantime I have lots of fun to be had NOBAR...

LS
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04-03-2012 06:13 AM  7 years ago
MXRACERX43

rrApprentice

Hazleton,PA USA

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If it has been 6 months of drift and tapes your chasing the wrong thing! Start chasing vibes. Especially with a Beast-X, they are one of the most vibration resistand units out there.Team Miniature Aircraft~Team GensAce
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