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04-05-2012 05:49 PM  9 years ago
HansAuf

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Gainesville, Florida, USA

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-Cody

Cody - More often than not people just slap the controller board on an fly it like that. No tuning at all. It depends on several things. Is the quad controller tuneable at all? What options are avaiable for tuning and how extensive are they? I'll give a low, mid, and a couple high examples as far as controllers go.

The KK Blackboard (includes the HK board) is really an good little controller. People joke about their capabilities but they are very capable boards that can be flown succuessfully with little knowledge of tuning. Three (3) simple Gyro controls are all you have. The thing about this board is you have to actually FLY the quad and keep it level on your own, using your movements and skillset , and it appears that the masses don't want to do that. You can however soften this up a bit in your transmitter settings but it involves a knowledge of how your particular transmitter deals with travel/end-points/exponential.

The DJI NAZA is another good board that is suited well to beginniers and folks who do not desire agressive flying. It adds auto-level and altitude hold capabilities that rival much, much more expensive controllers. However, if you want fast forward flight you're still going to have to learn to let up the auto-level and switch to manual. The Naza in manual flight mode it not really tame for some newer quad pilots. Again, you can soften this up a bit in your transmitter settings. I personally find the Naza nice for a Hexacopter doing slower FPV flights with larger cameras and doing smooth pans of a wide area. It's when I switch to manual on my quad and try to do fast forward flight that I feel the lack of giddyup and a loss of accuracy to control inputs. Now before I get flamed by the Naza Fanboys (as I often do), please make sure you see above where I say that I like the Naza and I actually have 2 of them (albeit they are not my favorite by any means).

The OpenPilot CopterControl (Soon to be the CC3D) is highest on my list of tunability versus learning curve. With the OPCC board I pretty much have all I want and need. I take off in manual mode and I can literally blast across a field via FPV or LOS and the control is true and accurate to my input. I can pop it up to a decent hight and pull off flips and rolls with no problem and they're always the same based on my input. I can make them big or small, fast or slow, and link multiple together without any wonkiness in the movements. Then I can also switch to auto-level mode and do beautiful, stable pans via the FPV cam or slow and level circuits via LOS. Does it come out of the box like this? No. I had to put some work in reading the OpenPilot help files and watching the videos on the site. But on a VC450 frame from hoverthings with the stock OPCC config file, it will still fly pretty darn well with no tuning at all. That will get someone up and running at least so they can become familiar with the controller before making any changes. As far as tuning goes... It's literally the easiest of the more advanced multirotor controller boards I've used. But as with anything, it will perform as good as the amount of time you are willing to make it do so. I remind you by example: Does a new Heli with a virtual flybar fly exactly the way you want it right out of the box? No. Absolutely not.

Last but definitely not least, the Multiwii based boards. These include the Paris stuff, Quadrino (see Witespy), Miniwii, etc. They have more tuning options than you can shake a stick at. The resources for tuning are available literally everywhere. Now it is however a good bit more complex than tuning the OPCC board. But I have seen some Multiwii boards that were tuned so tight you could loop around a limbo stick with no problem. But once tuned these boards are awesome flyers. Most now have auto-level, Barometric Pressure Sensor, Magnetometer (Heading hold) etc. So you really can squeeze every ounce of performance and features out of these if you are willing to invest the time. Are they for folks newer to Multirotors? The Quadrino is but only because of the level of support that Witetspy provides. The default config for that board is pretty darn good. If you get it as a package deal from Witespy (Google it)(on a hoverthings frame), let him know your transmitter type and he'll configure it to match for a true RTF setup. But if you're putting it an another machine, you're going to need to learn how to configure it or just about any other Multiwii based board.

There are so many frame, motor, esc, etc combinations that are possible that in order to really have a great flying multirotor machine you really need to become familiar with tuning. Remember, just like with any RC vehicle, the more time you put into it, the better it will run.
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04-05-2012 05:57 PM  9 years ago
HansAuf

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Gainesville, Florida, USA

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andersons -
I have a VC550 with CCB and it flies great, I'm not nervous just trying to get to a hover without drifting 10 or so feet from the starting point.
If you're looking for a hands-off hover, you're not likely going to find it. Even multirotor controllers that have GPS still have some drift. There are so many factors that can contribulte to this. Wind, C.G., unbalanced props, unbalanced motors, vibrations, and yard gnomes (lil b*****ds get into everything) are all factors that no matter what you are NOT going to overcome.
I gave it a downward tilt to help see the ground... obviously that's incorrect? This is all new to me lol
Think about it this way.... the faster you go, the more the craft has to tilt whatever direction you want to go. When your're first learning to fly multirotors FPV, start out by aiming the camera straight forward. If you've got props or arms you can see, so what. You're not filming Gazelle for the Discovery Channel here. Seeing the props, frame, etc helps you get a frame of directional and attitudinal awareness that your eyes and brain can more easily contend with. Once you get flying and feel more comfortable with it, then you can point your camera however you want. Another hint along that line is to make sure you can "hear" what's going on. Hook up your microphone and actually listen to your craft. You can detect wind increase, vibrations, problems, etc if you are actually listening.
I have it linked to my laptop to record I'll try to fly from there.
I don't advise this. There is a great deal of latency from input signal to output display when using a computer to display your downlink video. You'll likely end up smacking something you thought you'd gone in between from the large amount of delay you will likely experience.

Also, the most important thing I can say to anyone is to learn to fly your FPV craft LOS (Line of Sight) FIRST!!! It is bar none the best advice you will ever get. Fly the quad around. Play with it for a battery or two every day for 2 weeks. I guarantee you that your skills FPV and LOS will drastically improve.
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04-05-2012 07:08 PM  9 years ago
phillips942

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San Diego, CA

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HansAuf,
Very well put. I too have noticed the manual mode on my Naza is a bit nimble on the controls and it sure makes you fly the model again.
The prop adaptors i have been longing for have arrived today!! I installed everything and made everything ready for flight. All i can say is I missed every day i went without flying my quad!

Here in Japan the weather from a typhoon is subsiding so when the winds calm down I will take her out for a flight or 7

I will post pictures in the near future!
U.S. Navy [Avant Aurora/2 Trex 700N/600NSP/450Pro]
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04-07-2012 01:16 AM  9 years ago
Dr. Fibinotchi

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Sioux Falls SD

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hmm
Really great info here and thanks for the notes on the controllers. Here in SD the wind has been high. I have no problem getting the logo out in 20mph, but its just not as fun. No wind or little wind would be great for FPV/ video, but in what scenarios and or setups can deal with a little wind. I am not talking excess of 15mph. Since it varies from setup to setup I have to ask if a 500 is any better in wind or a srtetch'd 450. or it is a matter of gain on the controller to compensate to soften.

-C
If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion.
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04-11-2012 06:51 AM  9 years ago
HansAuf

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Gainesville, Florida, USA

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Dr Fibinochi... can you be more specific with your question? I'm not following.
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04-11-2012 05:41 PM  9 years ago
Dr. Fibinotchi

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Sioux Falls SD

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hmm
Well you answered detailed on the board and it was excellent info, but I was curious on the mechanical side of things. The prop loading question..IE a higher rpm motor higher prop rpm with less pitch verses the opposite or a 3 blade...or is is pretty small difrences in such that it would not matter or be hardly measureable.

The boards we could say handle one side of the coin. Now looking at the other.,..even though the board is a higher % of handling wind.

-C
If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion.
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04-12-2012 03:31 AM  9 years ago
HansAuf

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Gainesville, Florida, USA

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Ah, I understand now. In my experience only (no hard data), larger prop setups (10in and up) tend to be less tolerant of higher winds. For example my large hexa runs 11 and 12 in props, and it's stable in light, constant winds, but gusts are a dealbreaker. You notice the stabilization fighting immediately and it ruins any video. Smaller prop setups seem to be more tolerant of winds. For example, a lower KV setup on 4s with 8 in props. However... You can get some perfectly good and stable multirotor flight performance with a machine that's balanced correctly, with a good flight controller, and any number of setups. There are folks flying a 1200kv setup on 3S with 8" props and you hardly see any wind effect at all. It's all a matter of finding that sweet spot of a combination of parts that is what truly makes a multirotor fly well, whether it's in wind or not.
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04-12-2012 08:44 PM  9 years ago
Dr. Fibinotchi

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Sioux Falls SD

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ahh
very true. It makes sense hearing that the smaller props 'can' be less vibration prone and maybe it helps on the ability of the controller to react to the wind. I agree with finding a setup that works varies depending on equipment. I see some use the gimble setup with a flame wheel above. Again depending on setup and mounting we could contemplate the better or worse verses above the quad. Interesting though.

-Cody
If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion.
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04-13-2012 04:48 AM  9 years ago
HansAuf

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Gainesville, Florida, USA

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Again, this is just my opinion, but for a Larger quad/hex/oct I like the Droidworx on the high end, then the AGL Hobbies UAP-1. For the smaller frames, the Hoverthings frames are my #1 choice over any other. The VC450 is probably the most versatile I've used and the new FPV Specific frame (Nicknamed "Ralphie" by some) is bar none the sweetest multirotor FPV frame out. I like the DJI electronics, but the motors are just not for my taste (I prefer Avroto, RCTIGER, KEDA <-- In that order), and the frames although really common are just not as solid to me as some of the others. DJI does a nice job of the package setup though, including a frame, motors, esc, and controller. That's a positive to this section of the RC hobby. But this is a Multirotor FPV discussion after all and I just don't like the DJI frame for FPV.

Sorry if that was long-winded.

(EDIT: The Turnigy PropDrive motors are also very good in the 450-500 size MR configurations, but I did not include them because you can usually get the motors but the prop adapters are scarce.
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04-13-2012 12:09 PM  9 years ago
phillips942

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San Diego, CA

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(EDIT: The Turnigy PropDrive motors are also very good in the 450-500 size MR configurations, but I did not include them because you can usually get the motors but the prop adapters are scarce.
Very true HansAuf. I am flying the NTM motors which are GREAT by the way but those darn prop adapters had me waiting upwards of 4 weeks+ for them to get back in stock.
U.S. Navy [Avant Aurora/2 Trex 700N/600NSP/450Pro]
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04-13-2012 09:29 PM  9 years ago
HansAuf

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Gainesville, Florida, USA

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Strange enough, I ended up getting them off eBay. Someone had 5 extra. Problem is, I've not found anymore since.
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04-14-2012 05:01 AM  9 years ago
phillips942

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San Diego, CA

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Same situation with me except there were only 3 available and i had to wait several more weeks for one more lol.

They should be in stock now at hobby king right now...
U.S. Navy [Avant Aurora/2 Trex 700N/600NSP/450Pro]
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04-14-2012 01:22 PM  9 years ago
Al Austria

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Sacramento, CA - USA

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NTM 28-26 motors with Gaui 8" props are a stellar combination. Flying with a ~1400 gram quad you'll have excellent wind penetration and ample power for FPV. Add a CopterControl board and you can tweak the cyclic to feel surprisingly similar to a FBL helicopter, that is rapid, crisp, and precise.

Anyone interested in these motors need to purchase a set and stock up on the accessory pack NOW while they are available.
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04-15-2012 05:16 AM  9 years ago
HansAuf

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Gainesville, Florida, USA

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Did not know they were back in stock, thanks Al. Grabbed 5 and 5. Get em while they're hot folks.
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04-24-2012 07:57 PM  9 years ago
kjon12

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Bellevue, WA

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Video Transmit/Receive Strength
I was just looking at a YouTube of juz70 sitting on the deck of his house and flying his quad around the place. How is it that he is able to fly along the backside of the house without losing video?

Watch at YouTube

I have the exact same setup now that he was using, with a 1.3GHz 300mW Vtx, an 8db patch antenna, 3db omni antenna, and Eagle Eyes diversity, yet I seriously doubt that I could fly behind a building. I haven't tried it, but I'm afraid I would wind up with a crunched quad after I lost the video feed.

My setup:

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04-24-2012 08:02 PM  9 years ago
phillips942

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San Diego, CA

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Hey Juz is just ballsie... I guess you just need to test the limits of 2.4Ghz and the Video setup you have to see what its really capable of. I mean juz did it, why can't you? lol No pressure!! U.S. Navy [Avant Aurora/2 Trex 700N/600NSP/450Pro]
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04-30-2012 02:40 AM  9 years ago
phillips942

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San Diego, CA

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Here's a ballsie video for ya....

Watch at YouTube

U.S. Navy [Avant Aurora/2 Trex 700N/600NSP/450Pro]
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05-01-2012 03:55 AM  9 years ago
Al Austria

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Sacramento, CA - USA

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Very nice phillips942! Very smooth and deliberate flying, I know you enjoyed those flips..

I got to put some flight time on a couple different NAZA setups over the weekend and I was surprised how well they flew in manual mode, really not too much different than my CC board. One was in an HT-FPV frame and another in a DJI F550. The HT-FPV frame flew very stable, and the F550 was a real hot rod of a hex, probably the fastest multi-rotor in terms of FFF speed I've flown and it tracked on rails. I'm definitely looking forward to getting my own NAZA to play with.
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05-01-2012 04:08 AM  9 years ago
kjon12

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Bellevue, WA

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Great job, phillips942. Looks like you had a nice day for flying, too. Was that your heli out in front of your car? What is it, it looked pretty big. What kind of ground cover is that you're taking off and landing on? It's sure not grass.
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05-02-2012 02:14 PM  9 years ago
phillips942

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San Diego, CA

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@ Al
Thanks, it was an awesome flight. I wasn't sure how much altitude i would lose when doing the roll and flip or how reactive the Naza would be to stabilize the model when exiting the manouver but i went for it anyway and it went suprisingly well.

I did get my hands on two highly sought after items. The HT-FPV Frame as well as a brand new OP CC Board. Im gonna start that build this weekend but that should be fun as well. My buddy has the same HT-FPV frame and an installed CC Board and his flies great. Im shooting for the same success with my frame.

@ Kjon12,
It was a great day for it!! I had to work after that flight so I didn't enjoy the whole day
That was my TREX 700 Nitro FBL with the Orange canopy sitting outside my car. I've been flying for 12 years now; planes, heli's and now quads(FPV). Haha the ground cover? Its wild green stuff lol. Im not sure what it is hahaha
U.S. Navy [Avant Aurora/2 Trex 700N/600NSP/450Pro]
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