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03-28-2012 08:02 PM  7 years ago
Topic Vote0Post 1
Scott1115

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Greenwich, CT

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At My Witt's End
I dusted off the heli in early January for a few flights - it's an Align 600LE with OS 50H and Hatori pipe. Vbar black, full size, v5.2pro.

Last season it flew fine. Now it has a fairly aggressive "shake" to the whole heli. I tried adjusting the cyclic gain and tail gain up and down with very little change. It had been crashed (and flown successfully since)but I went and replaced the main shaft, feathering spindle and tail rotor shafts trying to chase down the cause of the "shakes." I did look at the analysis and it shows many high vibration and extreme vibration events.

replaced main shaft
replaced feathering shaft
replaced tail shaft
opened sensor case and found the circuit board to be well secured
no slop in the head
phasing is correct
adjusting the vbar's tail gain up and down has little effect on "the shakes"
adjusting the vbar's cyclic gain up and down has little effect on "the shakes"
I see nothing else to do but try the "Milton Mod" until the blue sensor can be had and then see if this makes a difference. It is currently secured with Futaba gyro tape.

One idea that came to mind - I did upgrade from v5.1pro to 5.2pro. Not sure exactly when I did this, but it could this possibly be the culprit?

Any help would be VERY welcome.
Compass 7HV, Trex 550E
RCRCC
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03-28-2012 09:22 PM  7 years ago
Shortman

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Portland, Oregon

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Did the helicopter fly after the crash without any vibrations? Bad thrust bearings, a bad bearing somewhere else, motor? It's hard to say its the VBar when you crashed the heli, so many little things can cause vibrations.Team JR
Team ThunderPower RC
Boca Bearings
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03-28-2012 09:29 PM  7 years ago
Jerry K

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Houston Area

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Check your tail shaft. Check tracking of the tail blades.
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03-28-2012 09:53 PM  7 years ago
paverpilot

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Corona Ca. USA

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I have had the same problems many times with nitro and electric heli's, the only thing I can tell you is that it is always something I simply overlooked. the first thing I do when I have the shakes is I order a complete set of bearings and change every bearing in the Heli, While I have the thing apart I check all the shafts by rolling them on a glass table, the next thing I do is put new tape on the v-bar sensor.

Hope this helps you, Art
Scorpion Power System-Sick Canopy-Team Gens Ace- Team MKS Servo USA
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03-28-2012 09:57 PM  7 years ago
Scott1115

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Greenwich, CT

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Heli was flown since crash - it was fine.

New tail shaft

Bearings are smooth, no binding anywhere, all our heli's should be so smooth.

Blades track great and phasing is good.
Compass 7HV, Trex 550E
RCRCC
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03-28-2012 10:18 PM  7 years ago
BrainDrain_dx

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Wichita KS

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I had several black vbar sensors fail on me. So many I would never touch one again. If your sure the machine is sound that would be my first place to check. Try a blue sensor and see if that fixed the issue.KDS Agile 7.2/5.5 Chase 360 - SkyHero Spyder/Spy/Little Spyder
Sponsored by my Visa
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03-28-2012 10:23 PM  7 years ago
povern

rrApprentice

LF, MN

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I would check the bearings.

My thinking is one got rusty or seized up while sitting.
Screw It, I'm gonna fly
Synergy E5, E5s and Logo 800 xxtreme
vControl and Neo
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03-28-2012 10:50 PM  7 years ago
Zaaaguy72

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MN

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I would say 3 options; bearing went dry, blades out of balance, or sensor going bad. I recently had a black sensor go bad.

Chris
Team Sanjel!
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03-28-2012 11:56 PM  7 years ago
KC36330

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Enterprise, AL

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check the vibration analysis (not the flight log), what frequency is giving you problems? that will help track down the problem.Morgan Fuel / JetCat / KingTech Turbines
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03-29-2012 12:02 AM  7 years ago
Scott1115

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Greenwich, CT

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is there a cross reference to compare the frequency vibration with the part of the helicopter potentially having issues?Compass 7HV, Trex 550E
RCRCC
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03-29-2012 12:03 AM  7 years ago
Shawn Behrens

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DEEP IN THE BOG

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It was my understanding that the older black sensors don't like FW 5.0 or later. I'm not saying it doesn't work just that it's not ideal (vibration filtering) especially in a nitro application.

Shawn
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03-29-2012 01:25 AM  7 years ago
KC36330

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Enterprise, AL

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is there a cross reference to compare the frequency vibration with the part of the helicopter potentially having issues?
reference the RPM in the vibe analysis to the corresponding part of the heli. example, 2000ish RPM = Main Rotor
Morgan Fuel / JetCat / KingTech Turbines
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03-29-2012 01:30 AM  7 years ago
Scott1115

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Greenwich, CT

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Thanks KC, that makes sense. Thanks for everyones help.Compass 7HV, Trex 550E
RCRCC
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03-29-2012 01:35 AM  7 years ago
CX1

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Canada

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I'm thinkning engine bearing or foam pad for sensor" Team Protoast "
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03-29-2012 02:27 AM  7 years ago
Scott1115

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Greenwich, CT

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vibration analysis?
is there a way to pull this out? I see there is a vibe analysis available at the bottom of the main vbar screen, but other than real time, I cannot figure out how to pull this data out from the event log or a previous flight.
Compass 7HV, Trex 550E
RCRCC
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03-29-2012 02:36 AM  7 years ago
DaveW

rrApprentice

Newark, DE

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Does it look much like a low headspeed shake from the days of flybar? if so, my money is the dampers and grease in the dampers dried up. I have seen this many times where the grease actually becomes sticky and the spindle cant float. Pull the head apart, check all grip bearings and thrust bearings for notchyness. clean out old grease and replace the dampeners. should be good after that. just make sure the grips move smooth when everything is tightened back up. The vibration reading in the vbar is most likely just picking up the heli shakes from sticky hardened dampeners.
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03-29-2012 07:35 AM  7 years ago
MrMel

rrProfessor

Gotland

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Spectrum analyzer, check this video for how to use it.

Its LIVE ONLY though, you cannot pull it from after a flight.

Watch at YouTube

Gone fishing..or hunting..or something
My site: http://heli.dacsa.net - VBar videos and more
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03-29-2012 07:38 AM  7 years ago
OICU812

rrMaster

Edson, Alberta, Canada

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In "ONE" case I had something similar on my TDR. I replaced shafts you name it, what was it in the end?

"Gyro tape" no word of a lie here. After sitting in sun prior to flight that day, (hot day) it gelled up the tape abit, and my search went for a week. For giggles changed the tape and it was then perfect since. Not saying it will be your case, but to throw that into the "check list".
...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...
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03-29-2012 01:20 PM  7 years ago
Scott1115

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Greenwich, CT

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Thanks MrMEl and others. I did see your video (twice actually), that is why I wanted to know if it recorded or does it have to be live. I will have a go at it this weekend, weather permitting.

OICU812 - if I sell my other nitro and your 7HV is still available, I want it!!!!
Compass 7HV, Trex 550E
RCRCC
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04-02-2012 06:11 PM  7 years ago
Scott1115

rrElite Veteran

Greenwich, CT

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-Tried the Milton Mod – very little help.
- Replaced bearings in the clutch stack and found a bent ball link on the main blade grips, replaced those and it got better!
-removed Zeal tape and went with 3M red-backed tape and a new (borrowed) black sensor, also better!
-tail slider was a bit notchy, so I removed, cleaned and rebuilt and lubed very sparingly – better still.
I still have a small oscillation to the helicopter, but it is now flyable. I would love to get it 100% fixed – I plan on going through every ball link, every pushrod, etc…this week. I have now replaced every rotating part except the actual swash. BTW – all servos appear okay, no stripped splines that I can see, pots in radio are good.
ANY MORE ADVICE WHERE TO TROUBLE SHOOT WOULD BE HELPFUL.
Compass 7HV, Trex 550E
RCRCC
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