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HomeAircraftHelicopterBeginners Corner › Mechanical Tail Setup HELP Trex 500
03-05-2012 12:55 PM  6 years agoPost 1
SGM Retired

rrApprentice

Toney, AL. USA

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OK guys, I'm to wits end here trying to get this heli to fly steady. I still have a tail wag and nose wants to turn. Had a fellow from local field told me to perform mechanical tail adjust. Well I set the Dx6i to rate mode (40 % gyro gain) GY 780 red light on. Then hovered and nose goes left and tail right. Adjusted tail servo rod out (extended/shortened) and it still turns left. The funny thing is it just started going left, it was turning right before I started all this adjustment. And the wag is still alive and well at Gyro gain of 40% or 68%.

Any suggestions of what to try next? Thanks for your help.

Trex 500FB Trex 600ePro McpX. Synergy E7SE

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03-05-2012 01:12 PM  6 years agoPost 2
Pistol Pete

rrProfessor

Seffner, FL

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Try hovering in rate mode.

Adjust rudder trim until it flies steady then land.

The trim you induced was to make up for the mechanical difference. Now the trick is to adjust rod length to bring back trim to zero. When sucessful, you should be able to hover in RATE mode with no trim.

After such, then comes the gain adjustment when HH is turned on.

What is the distance between servo arm screw and ball? Avg is 12mm.

~~Enjoying the hobby one flight at a time~~

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03-05-2012 01:25 PM  6 years agoPost 3
SGM Retired

rrApprentice

Toney, AL. USA

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Thanks for the info, I did. It try rudder trim from front panel of Tx. Was told to never put rudder trim in but now that you say this good to try and then adjust back to zero.

I can't get to a hover, bird will spin left (nose) before even getting off ground. As for the arm distance it's at 10.5mm.

Trex 500FB Trex 600ePro McpX. Synergy E7SE

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03-05-2012 01:30 PM  6 years agoPost 4
Pistol Pete

rrProfessor

Seffner, FL

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The "do not trim" the rudder rule applies AFTER the setup is completed as it throws the centering reference off once initialized.

The 10.5mm seems adequate.

~~Enjoying the hobby one flight at a time~~

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03-05-2012 01:36 PM  6 years agoPost 5
SGM Retired

rrApprentice

Toney, AL. USA

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Thanks Pistol Pete, The wind gust are to great (25 mph) outside to try and hover now. Will try late today to see if I can hover.

Would the tail wag of 2" in he's side to side throw off the gyro hold? It seems like it has gotten worse.

Trex 500FB Trex 600ePro McpX. Synergy E7SE

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03-05-2012 02:01 PM  6 years agoPost 6
Pistol Pete

rrProfessor

Seffner, FL

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I would start from scratch just because it forces me to go through the proper steps and reinforces habit. (good ones hopefuly)

Even not having a servo properly centered will create headaches.

Make sure there is no influence from gyro to servo when centering it. So 0% in gyros radio setting should do the trick. If in doubt, bypass the gyro by connecting directly to Rx.

Building TIP: center all servos first directly from Rx prior to installation.

All my comments assume rotor shaft and hub are true as in no wrecks.

~~Enjoying the hobby one flight at a time~~

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03-05-2012 02:13 PM  6 years agoPost 7
doorman

rrProfessor

Sherwood, Arkansas

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New Heli??
Is this a new heli, or one that has been flown and "bumped" into mother earth??
Try turning the mains, with blades extended, by hand... Do this slowly and see if there is even the slightest bind anywhere while you are turning the head...I am hoping you locate a slight drag...maybe an out of round main gear or somthing on that order...
Just seems to have to be something other then a bad gyro, since you have already changed it out a couple of times???
Stan

AMA 2918-Team Spin Blades,,Castle Creations, Unique Aircraft

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03-05-2012 02:40 PM  6 years agoPost 8
SGM Retired

rrApprentice

Toney, AL. USA

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This is the same Heli I built in December and have no crashes or hard hits. The only miss hap was the first hover at a very long time and. Volts dropped and so did Heli from about 6 inches. There was no damage at all even checked by others.

I have gone from Align to Futaba to Align and back to Futaba. AerialSkyCam I was given a step down for the servos.

At the heli field yesterday was told belt was to lose so he helped me tighten but could not hover due to wind. I think I got this thing so far out of wack it want hover.

Pistol Pete I will start from scratch and Stan this is the same a only bird I've had except the dreaded Balde SR which is still on the floor in the corner.

Thanks again guys, I want to start moving out flying but I want to be sure I don't have to keep put stick to it to keep it straight. I'm planning on attending the Birmingham Funfly so I don't want to be laughed at when my bird starts spinning in circles.

Trex 500FB Trex 600ePro McpX. Synergy E7SE

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03-05-2012 04:00 PM  6 years agoPost 9
Pistol Pete

rrProfessor

Seffner, FL

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FWIW...

I also "isolate" the gyro wires by using double sided tape approx. 1/2" from gyro and folded over wire for a positive grip.

Doing this stops vibrations from getting to the gyro induced by loose wires that can move freely during flight and or downwash.

Once I came across "3M car trim and mold" double sided tape, I stopped trying this, that or the other.

~~Enjoying the hobby one flight at a time~~

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03-05-2012 05:59 PM  6 years agoPost 10
SGM Retired

rrApprentice

Toney, AL. USA

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I will do a better job of wire tie down also. Did not think those were sensitive. Thanks.

Trex 500FB Trex 600ePro McpX. Synergy E7SE

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03-06-2012 01:30 AM  6 years agoPost 11
SGM Retired

rrApprentice

Toney, AL. USA

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Mechanical setup of tail is complete. Thanks for all the information, come to find out was going wrong way on tail servo rod. What a mind cramp that was. Next step to replace grip dampers from grey to black. Thanks again, and the tail is at a very slight wag but I was told that's the best it's going to get till I switch to TT. Now, when will the mighty Heli pilot touch me on the shoulder and say its time? I don't have a clew.

Trex 500FB Trex 600ePro McpX. Synergy E7SE

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03-06-2012 02:29 AM  6 years agoPost 12
fenderstrat

rrProfessor

Aston,Pa

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Thanks again, and the tail is at a very slight wag but I was told that's the best it's going to get till I switch to TT.
I dont want to step on any toes or offend anyone but thats one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard.

was he trying to say everyone had a slight tail wag before TT came along?I've yet to own a TT heli and none of my helis have a noticeable wag.

I know you checked before,but when you disconnected the tail pushrod to check for binding you left it connected at the tail slider right?if so(I'm assuming you did but just checking)and theres no binding.a few things just to DOUBLE check

no trim or sub trim on rudder ch(you can adjust trim later)
revo mix is disabled
gyro is on DS mode.
gyro is mounted securely and wires are not causing it to move slightly

I normally dont recommend this but if you spool the heli up holding it by the boom(please be careful and keep heli safely away and just enough to feel if its smooth) can you feel any noticable vibrations?vibs cause hell on gyros.Some of this may seem unnecessary but I'm just throwing things out there trying to eliminate any causes

Compass helis Support Team
PerformancePlusRC field rep
Mini Titan/SE
TEAM KBDD

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03-06-2012 02:35 AM  6 years agoPost 13
fenderstrat

rrProfessor

Aston,Pa

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I don't want to be laughed at when my bird starts spinning in circles.
are you saying if you put the heli on a smooth surface and spool up, the heli immediately starts to spin in fast circles?

also has the heli been hovered successfully since the first slight mishap?

one more thing,if you can hover it what hapens if you lower the gain in HH a few points?

if it is doing the EXACT same thing with 2 different gyros,this seems to suggest its mechanical or tx related

Compass helis Support Team
PerformancePlusRC field rep
Mini Titan/SE
TEAM KBDD

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03-06-2012 02:52 AM  6 years agoPost 14
doorman

rrProfessor

Sherwood, Arkansas

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++++
I have to agree with fenderstrat about you having to live with it until you get a TT....that will not make a difference at all, and that would be the last advise I would ever take from that individual..there is something mechanically or electronically, but I am still convinced that something must have took a hit during the first "Bump"...I know that you said a few people looked it over and gave you thier opinion that nothing was hurt.. well from everything you have posted and if you have followed or tried each suggestion, you should have come up with something... the very slightest "drag" or "bind" can cause the gyro to hunt, and it is hunting/working to counter whatever it is...a bad bearing could be causing it, or maybe a one way that is not quite up to par!!!

Keep the faith and keep looking...

Stan

AMA 2918-Team Spin Blades,,Castle Creations, Unique Aircraft

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03-06-2012 03:02 AM  6 years agoPost 15
VKGT

rrElite Veteran

Sanford, NC

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FWIW, the TT upgrade is excellent for the 500. You'll stop chasing the tail

It does sound like there's something mechanical causing your issues. Is there anybody experienced at your local flying field that can have a look? Wish you were closer, it's hard to double check everything without hands on the heli

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03-06-2012 12:38 PM  6 years agoPost 16
SGM Retired

rrApprentice

Toney, AL. USA

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Again guys you have give some excellent info all though I don't understand some of it. Fenderstrat, not what "DS Mode and Revo mix" is. I have made sure the gyro is secured with 2 double side tape that came with gyro. I have not changed out the gyro only the tail servo from Futaba to Align then back to Futaba. I have checked the rod travel and it's smooth.

When the LHS guy checked the Heli yesterday a few more things have came up out of adjustment. He said my dampers are to sloppy, I installed the grey ones. I'm to install the black this week and hope it tightens the grips up.

Also the pitch is out on one blade. Not sure how that happened but it's out. Will adjust upon damper repair.

After new repair do Heli have to "settle" in or wear in before things start to fly straight? I question this because the only adjustment that I had done one day (on my on) was the blade tracking. The LHS showed me the adjustment procedures on initial setup. So one day I noticed/heard wind cutting during hovering. I brought it up to head high and notice a two blade look in tracking. So I took the one blades adjument arm down low and turned 1 complete turn and blades were tracking like knives. I save this cause that's the only blade adjust and now pict is out?

Do worn dampers cause this? I have only hovered 47 times, don't laugh and this is happening. The flight yesterday went well, tail straight but that wag. For sure I hope to get a lot of eyes on my bird when I attend my first ever Funfly in 2 weeks down in B-ham.

Hope this helps paint the picture here in Northern Alabama. I look forward to becoming the first ever professional hover for the Heli world. Thanks again guys for your input, I learn something every time you post.

Trex 500FB Trex 600ePro McpX. Synergy E7SE

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03-06-2012 01:40 PM  6 years agoPost 17
neilg.

rrVeteran

north of borston

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with that gyro did you set left and right limits for the tail slider

In Nomeni Patri Et Fili Spiritus Sancti

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03-06-2012 01:46 PM  6 years agoPost 18
rcmiket

rrVeteran

El Paso,Texas

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The TT conversion will not solve the wag. Me I'd dump that 780 for a good gyro. Many have had the same issue with the 780.
Mike

"When Inverted down is up and up is expensive"

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03-06-2012 02:28 PM  6 years agoPost 19
Pistol Pete

rrProfessor

Seffner, FL

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Try this...

Grab-hold the tail rod in place keeping it inmobil. Try to "gently" change pitch on the extended tail blades by hand. Kind of rocking it back and forth.

This will give you a feel of how much "play" there is if any.

IF none, your left-right wag points to gain or mechanical while up and down point to out of balance such as mains blades, bent mainshaft or spindle.

IF you have some play in it, something is out of tolerance. Be it a ball or the link and the gyro has to compensate for it.

No, there is practically no break in on parts. It either tracks or not.

I use practically due to the belt. This will stretch as well as shrink according to extreme temperature changes and or usage. I score my boom as a reference to make sure its not creeping vs belt stretching.

I dont have TT in my electric nor gasser and the tails are not wagging...go figure.

~~Enjoying the hobby one flight at a time~~

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03-06-2012 04:16 PM  6 years agoPost 20
doorman

rrProfessor

Sherwood, Arkansas

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Gyro??
Gary, in reading over this post again, to try and help you out, I noticed that a few mentioned that this gyro is known for this this problem.. Maybe you could get one of the locals to loan you a known good gyro and see if the problem goes away.. a Futaba 401 is still a good standard for learning, and the Futaba 520 is an excellent choice..
Just another avenue to look into..

I know that you will find someone at Birmingham that will be able to help you out too..

Stan

AMA 2918-Team Spin Blades,,Castle Creations, Unique Aircraft

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