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Home✈️Aircraft🚁Helicoptere-Henseleit TDR MP-XLE MP-E › Tail rotor Grip installation problem
03-02-2012 04:46 PM  9 years ago
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buster1

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Tail rotor Grip installation problem
I noticed I had a binding in one of my tail-rotor blade grips.

I've installed the bearing at back, then the thrust bearing with cups in correct configuration, then washer, then the bearing that sits under the screw.

the other blade grip slides slightly back and forth and moves over the outside thick bearing, but the other blade grip does not; it does slip back and forth, but does not move over the thick bearing.

I am dumbfounded and not sure what it is; but know this is causing my binding.

Any ideas??

Thanks,
Jeff
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03-02-2012 04:52 PM  9 years ago
OICU812

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If you do not have either tight to the hub both move freely? When the one that does not move, how many turns less before it can not move freely? Sounds that one of tow things, either the depth bore section of grip on the top lying bearings is not deep enough, or one side hub has too high of step. Have you tried swapping grip to either side of hub or made measurements?...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...
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03-02-2012 05:00 PM  9 years ago
buster1

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both turn freely - its just that one side has to much play and not moving freely over the outer bearing.

I've swapped the blad grips and the one that is correct, works properly, the other one does not.

I know that both grips are installed correctly, as well as the thrust bearing. - the one that has the problem just won't slide back and forth on the inner thick bearking like the opposite side and has too much play back and forth.

Its the wierdest thing - do you think my blade grip depth is off and I need a new blade grip? The screw sits all the way down against the hub thread and the bearings are all correct - its seems like a blade grip issues.
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03-02-2012 05:04 PM  9 years ago
OICU812

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Well it does sound though that is it. To confirm take your digital caliper fine pigtail make reference from tr bolt hole "tr blade" point and measure depth of each a 3rd of a mill is all it takes really to produce what you explain...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...
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03-02-2012 05:07 PM  9 years ago
buster1

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I think I am going to order a new hub and blade grip and call it a day.
funny thing is, I bought this from a good guy on runryder and it was flying fine, now I get it and its a problem with one blade grip, strangest thing.
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03-02-2012 05:08 PM  9 years ago
RCSavager

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Technically, if it's assembled you might be able to mic the distance from say the blade bolt to the center-line of the tail shaft. That can tell you if there is actually a difference in circumference of the blade bolts (out of geometric center/balance).

I'd check to insure bearings are fully seated in the grips. Check that with the depth end of your calipers. Once you've done all that you might get an idea if one of the grips is actually flawed. If it is, I have no doubt Jan would send you one out at no expense/shipping to cover the error.

Good luck man, hopefully somebody else has a more definitive answer for you.
Once you try steak, is hard to go back to hotdogs.
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03-02-2012 05:09 PM  9 years ago
RCSavager

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Dang, took too long to type my post and OICU beat me to the punch. :P

Additionally, that bird is used so Jan's responsibility ended. You can figure it out if you take some measurements. Because then we can measure ours and give you some reference points. Ordering a whole new setup is an expensive option that "might" fix it.
Once you try steak, is hard to go back to hotdogs.
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03-02-2012 05:20 PM  9 years ago
buster1

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what kind of digital caliper do you recommend picking up? I need to buy one - thanks for all your help.
jeff
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03-02-2012 05:24 PM  9 years ago
RCSavager

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For typical heli use anything in 6inches will do fine even in the 10-20 range. Mititoyos are well over 100 and worth it but you'd need a job requiring them to make it economical. Six inches and at least 2-3 digits south of the decimal will get the job done.

0.00 - 0.0000

Those would be 'just enough' and 'plenty' ranges for a caliper to be useful. The finer, or more decimal places, the numbers the more accurate the measurement.
Once you try steak, is hard to go back to hotdogs.
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03-02-2012 05:37 PM  9 years ago
buster1

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I actually just borrowed one from a friend.

I measured from the bolt that holds the blade grip on the hub to the inner edge of the set screw that holds the hub on the output shaft.

The good side is 28.67 and the troubled side is 28.69-70

both bolts are flush, so it seems a length of the hub is the issue and the bearings and thrust as well seem all seated properly.

Guess I need a new tail rotor hub!!!! So frustrating, has anyone heard of this on a TDR happening before.
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03-02-2012 05:48 PM  9 years ago
ABH

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I have a similar issue as I am finishing the build right now, one tail holder has no free play while the other has more free play, I made sure all is seated carefully and repeated the process at least 3 times with the same results, I read before that a little play in intentional and has no effect on fly so It did not bother me until I saw your massage, I will send an email to Jan and see what he thinks about that.
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03-02-2012 05:48 PM  9 years ago
RCSavager

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Think centrifugal force for a minute...

Take that measurement, or the one I named above, while pulling out on the blade. You want to seat the thrust bearings as they would be when it's spinning. THAT is the measurement it will be in use. Play in the assembly is perfectly normal while it's sitting on the bench. What matters is that when it's spinning that the assembly seats properly on the bearing/races and is the same measurement from the center (or edge if it's easier to measure) on both sides WHILE PULLING ON THEM to replicate the centrifugal forces that would seat it at rotation.

If it's the same you're golden. If it's different then there's something needing to be fixed/replaced. Just trying to get to the bottom of things here.

Hope that made sense. /shrug I don't think we're at the point yet to bug Jan over it. Still some things to check first before ordering and stuff IMHO.
Once you try steak, is hard to go back to hotdogs.
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03-02-2012 05:52 PM  9 years ago
OICU812

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Exactly what RCS says above, a tad play is NO BIGGIE at all, as said think of it as if it has forces on it, which of course in flight it will as the blades pull outwards to find their center. It is only if one is to the point of notching, but if it has friction, but yet when pull out slightly and there is none, this is ok. If what you speak of for play scares you, don't ever pull on a hirobo tr grip ...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...
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03-02-2012 05:58 PM  9 years ago
RCSavager

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Keep in mind that tail blade assembly is turning something like 3000rpm or so. (No idea the actual ratio but figure it's more than the head)

That centrifugal force is NOT going to be argued with. The measurement needs to be taken the same way you'd check to see if it's time to replace thrust bearings. You pull and twist to check for notchiness but if you're talking about tripping on whether or not it's right...

I'm suspecting it's PERFECT as usual and that the play is making you nervous as you're fiddling with it on the bench. Pull on that puppy a tad and see if anything wiggles. Dimes to dollars says it'll be rock solid. Take a center-to-end measurement somewhere with both of them while pulling out on them and I'm almost willing to bet it'll be the same.

What you're seeing with it sitting on the bench is perfecting normal AND INTENDED. So sleep well guys, doesn't sound like anything is wrong unless you come back saying the two numbers are way off. Even then I'd look at if the bearings were fully seated all before even thinking of bothering Jan over it. Sounds normal guys, relax.
Once you try steak, is hard to go back to hotdogs.
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03-02-2012 06:23 PM  9 years ago
ABH

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So one has no free play when pulling and the other one has at least 0.5-0.7 free play is normal? if so I will sleep better, let me know.
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03-02-2012 07:16 PM  9 years ago
RCSavager

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One of mine does and one of mine doesn't. When fully pulled out/seated the measurements are dead nuts and it flies like the wind.

/tuck-tuck
Once you try steak, is hard to go back to hotdogs.
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03-02-2012 08:06 PM  9 years ago
ABH

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Outstanding, will not worry about it then. Thanks for the advise.
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03-02-2012 09:05 PM  9 years ago
buster1

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does anyone have an extra blade grip, they are willing to sell me?
otherwise, gonna place an order to Germany.
Thanks,
Jeff
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03-02-2012 09:07 PM  9 years ago
RCSavager

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I'd almost bet if you made a thread here in the Henseleit section somebody might respond. Great group we have in our little corner of RR. Free bump for the question though.Once you try steak, is hard to go back to hotdogs.
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03-02-2012 09:38 PM  9 years ago
buster1

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Thanks - I am going to place an order for some spares while I'm at it,
might as well.
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Home✈️Aircraft🚁Helicoptere-Henseleit TDR MP-XLE MP-E › Tail rotor Grip installation problem
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