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Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterGasser Model RC HelicoptersOther › Century Torpedo v5 Question
02-29-2012 03:56 PM  9 years ago
rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

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Anytime Azalin!
Try it and let me know how it works out for you I like this method because it lets me know which engine, muffler or air cleaner makes more power and by how much.

-=>Raja.
MA 1005 Hanson 27 3DMax, 4488 flts
Spectra-G Hanson 27 3DMax, 3485 flts
Whiplash V1-2 Hanson 300, 2090 flts
Whiplash V2 Hanson 300, 989 flts
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02-29-2012 08:58 PM  9 years ago
Carey Shurley

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Orlando, FL - USA

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Hatori sab-12r - 13,250 rpms (modified- opened up with screwdriver)
rjx 90 - 13,500 rpms
century v2 unmodified - 13,950 rpms
century v2 (modified by drilling out) - 14,250 rpms
I'm still curious about these results

this is basically a constant load test, how many RPM's will the motor turn for a fixed load. Its not measuring drop-off or recovery time with an increasing load

I have run 23, 26 and 29 motors for as long as I want with the Hatori and the V5 at 15K+ RPM's at a relatively fixed load (hovering) without modifying the mufflers in any way.

I'm wondering if the modification package thats been implemented is impacting your results.
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02-29-2012 09:34 PM  9 years ago
James Kovach

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canton, oh - US

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this is basically a constant load test, how many RPM's will the motor turn for a fixed load. Its not measuring drop-off or recovery time with an increasing load
This is why I am not a big fan of prop testing or climb out testing. It really only tells you a small bit of what the engine is doing.

In regards to using the GV-1 as a measuring device. I do not put much stock in that as well as it is limited and you are making some level of assumptions. If you want to see what is happening, you need to see it in real time, not after the fact. There are a number of telemetry systems out there that you can do that now.
*disclaimer: These are my opinions. Agree or disagree, Your Call :)
Let'r Rip Tator Chip
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02-29-2012 11:56 PM  9 years ago
Bill Clontz

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usa

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Max rpms under a fixed load is a direct reference to horsepower not torque, torque is how fast it got there or recovers from unload to full load.. and although not a 100% scientific test, it is a direct relationship to the mufflers that shows which flows best. I would assume totally different results under a smaller engine with the same mufflers. however with the reed valved 30.5 the results are what they are, we also compared the original 28.5cc modified with the v2 before the reed valve conversion and it maxed out at 13200.

This does not show the "curve" you would get with a dyno but it does show whether we are making more useable power.
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03-01-2012 12:01 AM  9 years ago
Bill Clontz

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usa

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I have run 23, 26 and 29 motors for as long as I want with the Hatori and the V5 at 15K+ RPM's at a relatively fixed load (hovering) without modifying the mufflers in any way.
would it be safe to say that we are putting more load on the engine with the prop? than what you had at hover... I am sure this engine will turn 20000 rpms if we want under a lighter load but we are looking for maximum load at the rpm we want to turn i.e. 12750-13800

no differnt than running the 1/4 mile at the dragstrip, you make a run, then adjust, then make a run. the load did not change, but output of torque and hp did...
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03-01-2012 12:05 AM  9 years ago
Carey Shurley

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Orlando, FL - USA

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thats my point, I've run a 26 with a reed valve as well as a 29cc with those mufflers and had no isssue with revving them well past 14.5K under a relatively fixed load with no muffler mods

To be fair, I've never tested that sort of RPM with a std motor larger than a 23, no point in beating up the model but had no issue spinning the hell out of them

I don't think its a 956 vs 957 issue as I have one 957 and its been over 16K on a 23cc motor under relatively constant load.

I'm not doubting that the results posted are the results discovered, not implying that at all, I am however curious why the results are so different?

I don't know about the load factor, a 13x8 prop isn't all that big. And the comparison is turning 710mm blades at 6 degrees or more of pitch through a geared reduction as opposed to the direct drive of the prop
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03-01-2012 12:13 AM  9 years ago
Bill Clontz

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usa

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only reason i think the hitori was choked was because it is a season old and the other pipes are new (less than 5 flights) that might play a role?

as far as load goes, you have mechanical leverage with gearing in a heli whereas direct prop is 1 to 1. so the engine with 7:1 mechanical leverage would not be as clear as 710mmx6 prop versus 13x8 or 13 divided by 2 is 6.5" x 7 is 45.5 inches convert to mm is 1155mm... I think?!

so 13x8 fixed = 1155mm at 8 degrees pitch vs.
710mm at 6 degrees pitch

and there again - you are lifting a 13 lb. heli at 6 degrees pitch, I am lifting 500lbs. or trying to.... (test bench) at 8 degrees. not sure at what point the prop is slipping with no forward motion, but it's mute really.......

I know before I sent this engine to Maxhshv it would turn a 16x10x3 a maximum rpm of 7800, I will retest with the new mods... temps would be the same as its inside my shop 70 degrees....
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03-01-2012 04:48 AM  9 years ago
rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

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Also don't forget...
When you're hovering you're only using about 30% throttle on average. No real power is shown there as one of those 700 size helicopters can hover at that rpm with a 20cc or 30cc motor.

So you can hover at 14.5k at 6 degrees of pitch, but advance the throttle to full and you won't be able to increase the pitch as much if you intend to maintain 14.5k. If you have 13 degrees of pitch for example, you may find your motor will drop down from 14.5k down to say (for example) 12k and if you want to maintain 14.5k then you'll need to take out 2 to 3 degrees of pitch.

If indycustombikes takes a motor and puts it on the stand and runs it up to full rpms with a particular prop, then takes the motor out and modifies it and runs it up again with that same prop and it yields more rpms, then he's got more HP out of the motor, simple easy way to tell which motor is stronger.

He's doing it on the bench with a 13x8 prop, I do it in the heli with a 62x12 inch prop and 7 to 1 (approximate) gearing. Same idea.

-=>Raja.
MA 1005 Hanson 27 3DMax, 4488 flts
Spectra-G Hanson 27 3DMax, 3485 flts
Whiplash V1-2 Hanson 300, 2090 flts
Whiplash V2 Hanson 300, 989 flts
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03-01-2012 12:14 PM  9 years ago
Carey Shurley

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Orlando, FL - USA

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well, no non of my motors will run that fast with a load at 30% throttle and neither will yours. But you and I set our models up differently.

most of my models are setup for a normal hover at about 50% throttle so its its well above that when its spun up at these RPMs. I doubt that its at 100% though.

Now I'll have to go look.
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03-01-2012 03:28 PM  9 years ago
rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

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Actually
The percentage number in the transmitter is irrelevant as you can make it say anything you want - its just how each person sets it up.

But if the motors are running at the same rpms, the actual throttle barrel opening will be the same - however, that WILL vary between motor sizes AND porting as some porting will make the motor jump on the throttle sooner while other will make it slow to pickup in the beginning.

Yes sure at 14,500 the barrel opening will be more than at 12,500, but most likely not full throttle agree.

What's UP with runryder? Paul Mecha strikes again?

-=>Raja.
MA 1005 Hanson 27 3DMax, 4488 flts
Spectra-G Hanson 27 3DMax, 3485 flts
Whiplash V1-2 Hanson 300, 2090 flts
Whiplash V2 Hanson 300, 989 flts
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03-01-2012 03:30 PM  9 years ago
Carey Shurley

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Orlando, FL - USA

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but most likely not full throttle agree.
I'm going to find out the actual throttle position
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03-05-2012 02:15 PM  9 years ago
Toxic Al

rrApprentice

chuluota, Fl

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I put 5 mufflers on the dyno yesterday and was really surprised at what the outcome was, first off the motor was a 27.2 buggy engine which was broken in and already on the dyno and for testing the differences between pipes was fine.

the mufflers tested were the stk can,hpi truck can,century v3,torpedo v2 and stk RJX. I did not have the Hatori's on hand but can be added later.

To my surprise not on of the mufflers is making power over 13,500. they are all peaking between 10500-12k.The Rjx made the most power of the 5 I tested and the stk can made the least. I will find a way to post the charts.these curves will vary depending on tune and engine size but this is just a comparison bewtween mufflers on a given engine.
I will try to get data up soon. Peace, Al
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03-05-2012 02:18 PM  9 years ago
Azalin

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Ankara-Turkey

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Interesting results. Thanks Al.
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03-05-2012 03:37 PM  9 years ago
rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

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Awesome Al
I tested and the stk can made the least.
That verifies my findings some years back as well. Many people think because its less muffled it must make more power, but I found that to not be the case.
they are all peaking between 10500-12k
That is very interesting as well. I'm usually running right at the 12k mark when I fly my daily routines, I do go faster when necessary for speed runs or large FAI maneuvers but if I'm doing something that doesn't require extra head speed I prefer to run in idle up 1 at 12k. I find its a good rpm to be at, giving the governor more headroom to maintain my head speed.

I also would like to see the Hatori results from you when you can, I have one of those and will probably use it for my Whiplash or Spectra depending on where the application for it will be best.

-=>Raja.
MA 1005 Hanson 27 3DMax, 4488 flts
Spectra-G Hanson 27 3DMax, 3485 flts
Whiplash V1-2 Hanson 300, 2090 flts
Whiplash V2 Hanson 300, 989 flts
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03-05-2012 08:11 PM  9 years ago
Gearhead

rrMaster

Vt

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I wouldn't be so quick to be happy, Peak RPM is only Peak RPM you haven't seen the Torque Curve yet, and the V5 needs to be testedJim
Buzz Buzz Buzz
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03-05-2012 08:59 PM  9 years ago
Toxic Al

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chuluota, Fl

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I have seen the torque curves by the way, I forgot to mention that.My Data aquisition software show both HP and torque. I agree about the v5. Carey has the hatori and the v5 which I will put on as well. Peace, Al
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03-05-2012 09:00 PM  9 years ago
Toxic Al

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chuluota, Fl

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I am trying to due multiple overlays on the graph so you can see all at once.
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03-05-2012 09:08 PM  9 years ago
James Kovach

rrKey Veteran

canton, oh - US

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Toxic Al said:

To my surprise not on of the mufflers is making power over 13,500. they are all peaking between 10500-12k.
Can you clarify this for us Al. "not one of the mufflers is making power over 13,500". Do this mean that the HP was peaking in the 10500-12000 range and then the HP curve stayed pretty flat until they hit 13,500 and then the HP curve would start to fall?
Toxic AL said"

they are all peaking between 10500-12k
Raja Said"

That is very interesting as well. I'm usually running right at the 12k mark when I fly my daily routines, I do go faster when necessary for speed runs or large FAI maneuvers but if I'm doing something that doesn't require extra head speed I prefer to run in idle up 1 at 12k. I find its a good rpm to be at, giving the governor more headroom to maintain my head speed.
You cannot really use these results to validate operating range of a different engine. As Al said.....
Toxic Al said:

these curves will vary depending on tune and engine size but this is just a comparison bewtween mufflers on a given engine.
Your Hanson engine could be ported to hit peak HP in a different range. Toxic's engines are ported to hit peak HP at a different RPM. A stock 231 will likely hit peak RPM in a different range. So you cannot really use what he has done here to validate your engine operating ranges. It is simply a comparison between mufflers. No more, no less.
*disclaimer: These are my opinions. Agree or disagree, Your Call :)
Let'r Rip Tator Chip
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03-05-2012 09:19 PM  9 years ago
Gearhead

rrMaster

Vt

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""Your Hanson engine could be ported to hit peak HP in a different range. Toxic's engines are ported to hit peak HP at a different RPM. A stock 231 will likely hit peak RPM in a different range""

I'm with you James, so someone can have the Muffler that creates the most RPMs yet it may be the wrong Muffler for their Engine
Jim
Buzz Buzz Buzz
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03-06-2012 03:50 AM  9 years ago
Toxic Al

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chuluota, Fl

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Hi Guys, as I mentioned in my reply the motor in ? was a buggy motor 27.2 stroker. The motors will vary in tune and power output, this is why I mentioned it was just a comparison of the mufflers themselves. I just found out I have to upgrade to the pro version software to do more than one overlay which costs $100 from performance trends so give me a couple days to get the program upgrade. Peace, Al
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