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HomeAircraftHelicopterEngines Plugs Mufflers Fuel › OS 55HZ-R - motor quit in flight
02-03-2012 04:44 PM  6 years agoPost 1
raybans

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Northern Ireland

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Hi,

this motor is fitted on a Fury 55. It has been a bit problematic since new - ripmax replaced the piston ring, carb and regulator under warranty.

But since coming back from ripmax it has worked very well.

Today just after a tight turn - not inverted - the engine suddenly quit.

Guessing it was fuel starvation of some kind. I have attached a few photos so you can see the fuel line layout, clunk & clunk line (fuel magnet and lynx clunk line).

I was lucky to auto it down with no damage. The first thing i observed was the bulging fuel tank and when i released the fuel line clip there was plenty of pressure escaped.

Previously i had done a few tumbles and there was no sign of the engine quitting. But when i think about - when doing fast turns with blades perpendicular to the ground the motor felt to me like it was on the verge of quitting.

Plenty of fuel residue spattered over the frame and canopy so i don't think the motor is too lean.

Anyone encountered anything similar?

Thanks for your help.

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02-03-2012 06:13 PM  6 years agoPost 2
Dr.Ben

rrMaster

Richmond, VA, USA

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Among other things, a bad rear bearing or contaminated fuel can cause flame outs for no apparent reason.

Ben Minor

Peak Aircraft/Team Minicopter Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA

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02-03-2012 07:37 PM  6 years agoPost 3
raybans

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Northern Ireland

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Ok.
Ripmax gave the rear bearing a clean bill of health so hopefully it can be eliminated.

Fuel - today i was using the last of a 5 litre container of Optifuel. So will be trying some fresh stuff next time.

Thanks Dr Ben.

Checked the fuel filter but no sign of any debris or contamination.

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02-03-2012 08:19 PM  6 years agoPost 4
Corona007

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Chino,Ca

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Glow plugs have been the culprit most of the time for me.

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02-03-2012 08:39 PM  6 years agoPost 5
raybans

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Northern Ireland

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Just so I know - if it was the culprit - in your experience - was the glow plug 'done'? I was able to start the Heli again. So maybe it's significantly degraded rather than completely 'done'.

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02-03-2012 08:53 PM  6 years agoPost 6
Corona007

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Chino,Ca

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No, They weren't completely done. I could fired them up again too.
I'm thinking when they got up to a certain temp and they would give up.

Replacing them with new one seem to be the solution for a while.

Also I had a few problems at first with my OS55, with idle and tuning and blowing out glow plugs. Turned out my head was not completely tight and it was ruining my plugs.

Maybe just something else to check.

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02-03-2012 09:30 PM  6 years agoPost 7
raybans

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Northern Ireland

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Thanks. I will check those bolts.

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02-05-2012 02:02 PM  6 years agoPost 8
pitch black

rrApprentice

Singapore

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Check your One way Check valve too.
Mine started to act up today, it was clogged at times, engine was starved of fuel and couldn't sustain an idle.

Slope Soaring not a Crime

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02-05-2012 02:18 PM  6 years agoPost 9
raybans

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Northern Ireland

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Thanks - something else to check. When the motor is unreliable it really dents your confidence.

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02-05-2012 05:07 PM  6 years agoPost 10
Dr.Ben

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Richmond, VA, USA

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I've seen bad newly installed bearings and bearings fail in as little as 4 gallons of fuel. If you can find no other cause, please don't rule out the rear bearing until you've checked or replaced it.

Ben Minor

Peak Aircraft/Team Minicopter Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA

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02-05-2012 06:53 PM  6 years agoPost 11
PilotPin

rrApprentice

Indiana -- USA

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I had simular problem. Contribute it to no header tank, most of the fuel gone, runing a little on the lean side and pulling high G's in a tight turn which starves the engine of fuel.

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02-05-2012 07:46 PM  6 years agoPost 12
dkshema

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Cedar Rapids, IA

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A lot of good tips here, Dr. Ben's are especially on track.

Did you use anything to "seal" the muffler to crankcase joint? Many people use a high-temperature RTV material, which causes more problems than it cures. If you used RTV of some sort here, it is known to flake off, get sucked into the motor, and finds its way to the glow plug. When that happens, the fire goes out immediately. It also pretty much trashes the plug.

Dr. Ben's comments on the rear bearing go to the same kind of cause. Bits of metal flake off the bearing race and find their way to the glow plug. When they do, again the fire goes out immediately. I've seen a rear bearing go bad in only a couple of tanks of fuel. Don't rule this out simply because RipMax says it's healthy. They got a snapshot of the motor at some point in time. Things change.

Fuel that has not been properly sealed during storage (or the particular jug you're using at the time if you don't cap it off well between uses) will absorb moisture from the atmosphere. If this happens, you'll get all sorts of unpredictable motor performance and it will drive you nuts, because everything else you try to fix just doesn't work.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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02-06-2012 01:26 AM  6 years agoPost 13
raybans

rrApprentice

Northern Ireland

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Ben, Dave et al

Thanks for taking the time to respond.

Yes, I use RTV. But very sparingly. I thought that was standard practice! Is there something else you can recommend?

Well, all of your responses give me lots to think about so hopefully i can get to the bottom of it.

Thanks again everyone.

"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted"

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02-06-2012 03:31 AM  6 years agoPost 14
airdodger

rrElite Veteran

Johnston USA

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I found this engine wanted a lot of fuel in the same heli. The reason I mentioned this is because your engine has already been back for service.

Chris

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02-06-2012 04:58 AM  6 years agoPost 15
dkshema

rrMaster

Cedar Rapids, IA

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Yes, I use RTV. But very sparingly. I thought that was standard practice! Is there something else you can recommend?
Yes. Nothing.

Clean off both surfaces. They should already be flat and when mated together will seal well.

Tighten both bolts. Go fly. Land, and while still hot, tighten again. Repeat -- fly, land, tighten while hot.

The bolts will stay tight till you want to remove them, and the seal will be fine. There will be no RTV to get sucked up into the cylinder and put out the fire!

-----

Generally, if you have a flake of RTV on the glow plug, the motor will start and run, but usually dies right after your remove the starter battery. Of course, in flight, when the RTV hits the plug, it's lights out instantly.

-----

The seal between the crankcase and muffler in your case is not critical to begin with, as you have the "regulated" version of the 55. This is a demand regulator much like the YS carb design and the Cline regulator. The fuel system is pressurized through the use of a one-way check valve inserted between the motor backplate and the vent line of your tank. Muffler pressure has nothing to do with the operation of the motor.

In your first post you noted that as you removed the plug to the tank, you witnessed a bulging tank and a rush of air as you unplugged the vent line. I'd say your check valve is fine, by the way.

-----

In your original post, you say you thought it might be fuel starvation of some kind, yet you say it was running fine till that tight turn. It suddenly quit. It sounds as if it didn't bog down either before quitting.

Fuel starvation would most likely show up as the motor speeding up momentarily (as it leans out from lack of proper fuel mixture), then stopping. From your description, it just quit. That is more akin to a bearing particles or RTV reaching the plug.

If you have a decent magnifier, you can usually SEE the contamination on the glow plug element.

If the plug is still intact, it didn't just go bad in flight. If that happens, the plug is just usually toast -- the element breaks, turns gray and crystalline looking, disappears, or is horribly deformed. A lean run would cause that.

-----

Perhaps you are still running rich. That could cause a sudden, inexplicable stop.

You have lots of things to look for, fuel, needle tuning, plumbing. Good luck.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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02-11-2012 12:34 AM  6 years agoPost 16
raybans

rrApprentice

Northern Ireland

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Hi all,

just thought to return and say thanks for all your help.

As some of you suggested, it appears the mid was a bit on the rich side. I closed the needle 1/8 turn and have not had a repeat episode. Mid needle now at 7/8 open.

But, as you recommended, I will keep an eye on the bearing condition and endeavor not to use RTV!

Thanks once again.

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02-11-2012 04:55 AM  6 years agoPost 17
dkshema

rrMaster

Cedar Rapids, IA

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Looking at your pictures, I can't help but notice you have your mixture control (the little brass plate between the mid and high-speed needles) set extremely lean.

It's adjustment is a CAM, not a screw, and is good for only a quarter turn each way from center. Center being with the slot in the small cam being parallel to a line going down the center of the venturi.

If you go past a quarter turn either way you will have reversed the sense of the adjustment, as the cam would have gone past its limit and started traveling back toward center as you turn it.

I'm not familiar with the behavior of the low speed adjustment on the 55 HZ-R and where it ultimately ends up being positioned, but just from the picture, you are about as dead lean on it as you can get.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Team Heliproz

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02-11-2012 10:29 PM  6 years agoPost 18
raybans

rrApprentice

Northern Ireland

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Yes, I am a little uneasy about that as well.

This engine only has a few gallons through it. It was returned to ripmax because it just would not idle - or at least not with sensible needle settings. To get it to idle when i got it new, i had to close the high needle to 1/4 open, and rotate the idle screw back to where you see it in these pictures. But that was ok ONLY for idle. At full climb-out it leaned out and the engine cut.

So, i sent it back to ripmax and they fixed it under warranty. They said three things were faulty,

1. Piston ring - gap too big
2. Carb
3. Regulator

They bench tested it, and the settings you see it at are the settings which they left it at.

The idle needle to almost fully closed (just a fraction open). The main is 1.5 turns.

But i definitely do not like the concept that i am using virtually the full range of the idle mixture. Seems there is nothing left to adjust when the weather is warmer. From what i understand, it is normal to slightly lean the engine in warmer weather. So i really have nowhere left to go!

"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted"

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