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HomeContestAircraftHelicopterAerobatic FAI F3C F3N Contest › Will we ever see a young FAI/F3C pilot?
06-01-2012 09:29 PM  6 years agoPost 21
Chanceyman

rrApprentice

Riverview, FL

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I have noticed at Ircha that a lot of the flying 10 inches off the deck seems to have lost it's luster, more big manuevers now which I like as well.
I agree the 10 inches isn't as impressive, at first we all watch but once we have confidence the pilot isn't about to total a machine we look away. In my opinion the reason 3D is so popular is primarily because of the risk factor. Deep down people love destruction and seeing a heli potentially destroy itself grabs the crowds attention, at least momentarily. Its important you also take it big to keep peoples attention. I also prefer to watch a pilot that is smooth and looks to be more or less "painting" with their helicopter instead of just jerking it one direction to another. Smack loses my attention very quickly, unless the ground reaches up and grabs a heli, then I turn back around...

FAI and even F3N will probably only ever be popular to those who are in the hobby and really respect what it takes to control a helicopter through an entire maneuver, It still to this day amazes me at a pilot who can piro flip a foot off the ground but can't do a simple auto rotation, or stationary pirouetting hover.. So many people can do a maneuver but aren't really "flying" the maneuver, they are just stick stirring.

Fly it like you stole it. -Team Heliproz- -Morgan Fuel-

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07-01-2012 03:25 PM  6 years agoPost 22
dahld

rrKey Veteran

Bakersfield, CA, USA

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@ Dr.Ben,

Quote, "I am going to be very interested to see if F3N is going to make any headway here in the US"

Kyle has flown F3N in Europe several times in the past (when it was provisional), and it's not just your run-of-the mill 3D flying...that's for sure. It's tough trying to fly 3D stuff with precision...more difficult than MOST would ever imagine.

To get a flavor for how it goes, below are two vids of Kyle at one of the events. The first is "set" maneuvers, and it's one thing to say you can do certain 3D moves, but it's another to be able to do them at a constant altitude, position, and piro rate, centered on the pilot etc. LOTS of practice needed, even for the most accomplished 3D "demo" pilot.

The second is a music flight. Note that even though the heli is performing maneuvers to music, they still have to be symmetrical, altitude controlled, and centered on the pilot etc. You're also judged in the areas of choreography, how the maneuvers flow together, technical content, and variety of maneuvers.

You also have to fly a non-music "freestyle" flight as well. All-in-all, F3N is a difficult format, and within it's own world, as difficult to master as F3C.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2d39oyjSgI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44md-gBNeYQ

Will it take off in the U.S.? Although gaining popularity in Europe, I think it will have a tough road here in the U.S. You'd think that because it's "3D oriented", it might have more appeal. But if it doesn't, the U.S. will be conspicuous by its absence the first time there's an FAI World Championships that includes F3N.

(-: Dave

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07-01-2012 03:49 PM  6 years agoPost 23
Dr.Ben

rrMaster

Richmond, VA, USA

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I agree Dave. The regimen of practice and preparation for F3N put it in the exact same category of F3C. I maintain that one of the main the reasons F3C is not more popular is not just because of the hovering. It's the massive amount of time it takes to get even remotely competent and the expense involved to get there. Most guys in the US most typically cannot afford either the time or the models or both. They just want to go to FunFlys when possible, hang out with their friends, and fly as often as they wish doing whatever they choose. Good, bad, or indifferent, that's the reality.

Ben Minor

Peak Aircraft/Team Minicopter Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA

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07-01-2012 04:55 PM  6 years agoPost 24
rstacy

rrElite Veteran

Rochester, NY

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They just want to go to FunFlys when possible, hang out with their friends, and fly as often as they wish doing whatever they choose.
Not that there is anything wrong with that...

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07-01-2012 05:50 PM  6 years agoPost 25
Helipilot01

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ColliervilleTn

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No.

I don't think we'll ever see the likes of Curtis or Scott Gray again. They both started flying F3C before they could drive a car! I don't know of anyone in the USA who is flying F3C and hitching a ride from mom and dad to the practice field.

3D offers instant expression and satisfaction for someone wanting to show the world their talents. In the USA, we have many very talented 3D pilots and it will be evident at the IRCHA competitions. However, all of these pilots have been exposed to F3C, but I don't see them going that direction in groves. Even less, I don't see any non-sponsored young pilots yearning to be the next F3C champion.

In my years of flying competition, I determined that it cost the same amount in equipment, expenses and accommodations to lose as it does to win. You must have thousands of dollars in equipment to be competitive in F3C. That's a lot of yards to be mowed or driveways to be shoveled. However, If you’re a young pilot, you can fly 3D with one helicopter in your side yard, back yard, the local park or organized flying club field after school, between chores, ect. F3C often involves a club or private field, and at the younger ages, those are a little more difficult to come by to practice after school and by yourself. When you add in contestant judging, high entry fees, flying only 7 flights in 4 days, swapping schedule A and B between flights, It's easy to see why younger and older pilots are not gravitating toward competitive flying, F3C or F3N.

All this wraps up to say the environment has changed since since Bob Sims put together the first 3D National competition in 1996. (Incidently, Curtis Youngblood won that one by flying the then new F3C schedule backwards!)One thing that hasn't changed since then is that F3C is still primarily dominated by older gentlemen. I might add, fine gentlemen, one and all!!

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07-03-2012 12:59 PM  6 years agoPost 26
gwright

rrVeteran

Champaign Il

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Two words, instant gratification. With "modern 3D" you achieve instant gratification. With f3C, not so much. Hovering well takes an eternity of effort and the progression is so slow as to leave you unsatisfied as there are no real "aha" moments or successes that occur quickly. When I started regularly flying helis again last year I wanted to compete. I'm older now and thought I had the patience to put the practice in for hovering, but I was mistaken However, with all the "new" equipment that's come around in the last decade, the "old school" type 3D is fun again, as you can see progression rather quickly cause everything is much easier to learn. I think the only ones in the younger generation that may flourish are the ones with patience to realize the gratification of doing a hovering maneuver really well after 500 iterations is equal to doing a smack style 3D maneuver instantly,..it just takes a lot longer.

Now that someone brought it up,.. anyone know what happened to Bob Sims?

Gary Wright

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07-03-2012 02:30 PM  6 years agoPost 27
Ace Dude

rrProfessor

USA

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I'll match Gary's words with two other words: "peer recognition". Along with the instant gratification comes instant "peer recognition", especially at the local flying fields.

I believe the peer recognition from accomplishing the latest and greatest 3D maneuver is significantly more than completing or perfecting a FAI maneuver.

Quite a few folks have mentioned the cost of models and the time commitment to practice. I didn't see much mention of the travel costs of attending contests. Hotels and gas add significantly to cost as well.

  

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07-03-2012 09:25 PM  6 years agoPost 28
Helipilot01

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ColliervilleTn

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Yes, travel cost are part of it. I mentioned that in my previous reply that it cost the same in accomodations. I was meaning accomodations at contests.

When I was competing, the national champion position meant something. Just about everyone cound tell you who the top 3 at the US Nationals were. I don't think most know we still hold a contest each year to determine the US National champion, let alone who it is.

Being the FAI champion was smoething everyone wanted to be. It naturally attracted someone in the hobby to compete who wanted to try their skills against the very best and see where they fall. I think that's still in the hobby but is geared toward 3D. You have to admit, winning $7,000.00 at IRCHA is a lot more attractive than saying you hold a title that no one knows about.

National and international peer recognition and $7,000.00 is hard to compete with. No pun intended!

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07-03-2012 11:33 PM  6 years agoPost 29
Al Austria

rrElite Veteran

Sacramento, CA - USA

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Subjectivity is what I like most about 3D. Outside the realm of pro 3D contest flying, there is no such thing as an "ideal" execution for any given maneuver. We are limited only by our imagination, and flying our models becomes a dynamic medium of expression.

Original and highly complex maneuvers are being born all the time, and consequently, flight envelopes are ever expanding. With 3D, an individual's true and unique flying style can be showcased, and pilots can distinguish various aspects of their flying abilities other than just how well they can execute a scheduled maneuver.

3D flying is like art...subjective.

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08-01-2012 08:34 AM  6 years agoPost 30
iyoy

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Bacolod City, Philippines

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Hiroki Ito
Hiroki Ito was world champion at 16

iyoy

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08-18-2012 09:19 PM  6 years agoPost 31
kej

rrApprentice

Denmark

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I also had the pleasure to participate in F3N Augsburg 2010, mentioned by Dave a few posts back.
I obviously also saw all Kyle's flights. F3N really brought out some great stuff from Kyle. I am sure he would have won that year, if he had had max K on the set manouvres.
That music flight, is from my point of view, very probably the best flying I have ever seen from Kyle.

This year I had the pleasure to judge both 3D Masters and F3N EC.
They are both awesome formats, each with their specialities, but there is no doubt F3N made Kyle bring out an awesome combo of speed, precision and technical flying.

Dave... I really hope, that you & Kyle try to make it possible for Kyle to fly in Poland next year. Rumours, just rumours, say Ito will do both F3C and F3N :-)
Hope to see you guys there!!

BTW... I can confirm there are plenty of young awesome F3N Pilots.

Kim Jensen

Kim Jensen

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HomeContestAircraftHelicopterAerobatic FAI F3C F3N Contest › Will we ever see a young FAI/F3C pilot?
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