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HomeContestAircraftHelicopterAerobatic FAI F3C F3N Contest › Help understanding this type of Hirobo head
01-27-2012 12:05 AM  6 years agoPost 1
richardf

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San Diego, CA USA

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Guys,

For all of you that have years of experience with this type of Hirobo head, can you tell me what I can expect from this layout?

The grips and head block are SSR-V. The flybar cage is SSZ-3 I guess. The bearings in the head are new if memory serves me as are the white dampers.

To the best of my knowledge, the mixing arms are in a stock setting, not that there are many options. The flybar is a 490 with the 7 gram weights still inboard and not used yet.

I have about 25% expo on aileron and elevator with about 6 degrees of swash, both brass and lead in the Hirobo paddles verified at 38 grams.

These are the 700 Rotortech blades (I think) at 218 grams.

I like the feel so far around neutral, with this heat wave and high pressure sitting on us, there is zero wind. After the E-conversion, I have flown around 10 flights now.

I'm too inexperienced to know much about delta yet, so what is going to happen when the wind blows?

You can consider me a Class 1 flyer and that is how I want to setup the head for now. There might be a SSZ-V in the future, but we can start a new thread then.

Any help or insight is appreciated.

-Richard

Team JR Americas - AMA 4628

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01-27-2012 01:07 AM  6 years agoPost 2
Dr.Ben

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Richmond, VA, USA

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The delta is set as correcting, which favors collective stability. That is going to be preferable for that head design which has a tendency to bounce a bit in windy conditions. For those mixing arms, you will want to be in the tip hole on the mixer and one out from the hole closest to the pivot bolt. I would be inclined to remove the plate under the pitch arm. The SSR-VII head had too much bell hiller authority, but that is not a problem with the SSZ-III head arrangement.

I can write you a small novel on this stuff as it applies to these Hirobo heads, but it is perhaps more efficient to take on a question by question basis.

Ben Minor

Peak Aircraft/Team Minicopter Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA

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01-27-2012 01:13 AM  6 years agoPost 3
richardf

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San Diego, CA USA

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I will remove those plates tonight, I forgot they were even there it has been so long!

Understand about the pivot reference and will move to that hole.

Thanks,

-Richard.

Team JR Americas - AMA 4628

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01-27-2012 04:48 AM  6 years agoPost 4
richardf

rrVeteran

San Diego, CA USA

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@Dr. Ben,

I have made the suggested changes, new links for the longer reach to the grips, ready to test tomorrow.

-Richard.

Team JR Americas - AMA 4628

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01-27-2012 09:57 PM  6 years agoPost 5
richardf

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San Diego, CA USA

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Our great weather is still here and the high pressure is moving on and bringing the winds at 10-15. Just in time to see how this head is going to behave. Just as Dr. Ben predicted, it handled well with some vertical bobbing during gusty situations. I could get accustomed to this, except I have decided this EX should be my backup. I think it is time to buy something with a modern SSZ-5 head, something new.

Time to go shopping......

-Richard.

Team JR Americas - AMA 4628

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02-03-2012 07:12 AM  6 years agoPost 6
pepenk

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Jakarta, Indonesia

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Hai Richard,

Your head is Rudiger Feil European Champion type.
I used to fly with this type of head as it came with Freya EC Replica kit.

This head has less delta 3 compare with SSR VI or SSR VII. I like this head better than SSR series.

Regards,
Ferri
INA 0083

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02-10-2012 11:00 PM  6 years agoPost 7
Affe

rrNovice

Sweden

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Hi all
I also rebuilt my head to the "european style", from the original SSZ-V head. The reason was that the heli was in my liking to bumpy in gusty conditions. I think it is better with the rebuilt head, but I still like to have it less bumpy. Any suggestions? Maybe a question for Dr Ben?
Regards
Alf Engqvist
Sweden

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02-12-2012 03:16 AM  6 years agoPost 8
Dr.Ben

rrMaster

Richmond, VA, USA

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That head has a noticeable amount of non correcting delta, biasing stability towards the cyclic control and disfavoring collective stability in the wind.

With the head configured as pictured, the only way you're going to ease the collective bounce would be to run an even shorter ball in the pitch arm.

I will also make you aware that Hirobo has an even softer damper set that would work well in that head.

Another option that would improve your tuning options for finding the ideal amount of delta would be to use the pitch arms from the SSL FBL head.

I spent a summer along with a few other guys here in the US playing around with varying amounts on noncorrecting delta. There is no question that the cyclic stability can be made very, very good with the noncorrecting delta, it didn't take to long to realize that when the noncorrecting delta gets to the point where the cyclic gets really good in the wind, the collective stability really gets unacceptable. bouncing is way more difficult to control in the wind, and the judges can easily spot it too. Thus I think your better option for head configuration is the new softer dampers and a flip of the mixers to the other side of the see saw so you can run just a modest amount of correcting delta. You can hang on to the cyclics in the wind; bounce from too much noncorrecting delta is a tall order for even the best pilots in the world.

You can contemplate removing the center teeter to allow the axle to free float. Delta really doesn't work in the real world as it does in theory when dampers are too stiff and the axle can't mmove about a bit. If you still have the stock dampers in there, they're too stiff. If you can't source the newest white dampers, at least replace the stock ones for the ones that go in the SDX.

Oh yeah.......I don't have to tell you how massive a role blades can play in collective stability. I've seen some models that were made just plain bad in the wind by poor blade design. Choose carefully and try multiple brands to see what works best for you.

Ben Minor

Peak Aircraft/Team Minicopter Team Futaba Team Kontronik USA

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02-12-2012 10:01 PM  6 years agoPost 9
Affe

rrNovice

Sweden

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Ben, thank you very much for your answer.

I have ordered the softer dampers and also the FBL pitch arm. I will make the changes step by step, so I can follow what effect they have. And yes, I have noticed that blades play a massive role; for instance going from the long 720mm blades to the shorter 700 or 690mm blades increase the collective stability.

I will update this thread with my experiences, but it might take some time depending on the Swedish winter wheather.

Alf

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