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HomeRC & Power✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterFlybarless Rotor Head SystemsbavarianDEMON › HC3-sx....does it work for you?
01-01-2012 04:34 PM  7 years ago
Topic Vote0Post 1
Dr. D.

rrNovice

Pittsburgh, PA

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HC3-sx....does it work for you?
HeliCommand has been out for over a year now, however, there is not much written about it.
What has been your experience with the HC3-SX? Does the 'bail-out' feature work for you? Was it difficult to set up?
My winter project last year was to upgrade my Joker 2 into a FBL version. I bought a Vbar and had a knowledgeable and experienced friend help me set it up....it was like trying to hammer a round peg into a square hole!! It took us almost a year to finally get it flyable, but we ultimately did get it to work, and there is an impressive difference in the performance....Oh yeah, also changed it from 12S 5000mAH to 14S 4200mAH.
I, however, have not flown it much, for fear of crashing it. I treat it like it is 'fine China', and pretty much fly it only on perfect (weather) days, and/or with my mentor on the buddy box.
Now that the HeliCommand is affordable, I want to move the Vbar to my Logo 500 where is belongs, and put a HeliCommand on the Joker. As you know, Joker parts are expensive, and Joker 2 parts are becoming increasingly difficult to obtain. Cost of a minor crash can easily be in the several hundred range, and it would not take long for the HeliCommand to pay for itself.
I would appreciate your thoughts and experience.
Dr. D.
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01-01-2012 05:56 PM  7 years ago
Tyler

rrElite Veteran

Chicagoland area

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I installed the Helicommand on my T-700, downloaded and loaded a T700 profile from the Internet, and enjoyed the unit from the start.

Setting up the tail gyro and head gyro gains are a breeze with my radio while in flight and in real time, so tweaking was quick and easy.

Simply put, this controller is fantastic.

I didn't use the bail feature much, except to show it off to beginners.
Enjoy things that money can buy IF you don't lose the things money can't buy.
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01-01-2012 06:26 PM  7 years ago
fastflyer20

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N. Tonawanda, NY

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It works fantastic, I now have around 20 flights on it and with the help of Raja, got the gains, bail out, etc very close to my liking. The bail out works really well, even on a gasser that rendered the SK720 bail out useless. It is a bit spooky when you flip a switch and the computer has complete control. Some have had an easy time setting it up, some have not. It also depends on which radio, if you are using it as a receiver, etc. Lets just say they could easily fix the instructions but have so far elected not to. Help on the forums are becoming more common as more are sold and questions arise. When you do get into trouble, you do have to remember to flip the magic switch that Raja has named "Captain Rescue".

I say go for it, it flies great, handles gasser vibes better than any other unit available, and may save your heli,
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01-02-2012 12:05 AM  7 years ago
rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

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Captain Rescue is priceless!
He rides with me daily and I let him fly every once in a while to keep his skills sharp
It is a bit spooky when you flip a switch and the computer has complete control.
Actually not quite like that fastflyer, you still have control and can override Capt. Rescue. Try this exercise next time you are out -- hold the momentary switch to activate the rescue mode and while engaged pull back on the elevator until the heli goes more than 90 degrees around and let go. It will finish the flip, reverse collective and continue climbing. Do it again while still holding Capt. Rescue in, and it will flip again and reverse collective and you're still climbing. Its a cool neat thing to try, and you can do flips by just using the elevator, or aileron if you prefer. Totally can be overridden, on the cyclic. On the collective you can also override it, but not as much. The tail rotor is under your full control all the time.

By lowering the gain on Capt. Rescue, you can increase the amount of overriding you can do on the collective, but I find it to be not necessary.

To answer the original poster, get one for sure. If it saves you just once, its paid for itself in time and money to rebuild your machine.

I do HIGHLY recommend that you put the rescue mode feature on a momentary switch and not a toggle on/off switch. This way you can 'blip it' to level the heli and once you let go you have it back.

Helicommand also comes with a leveler feature like a co-pilot so to speak. This can be turned on with a switch to always level the heli once you let go of the sticks. It will not add collective to climb like Capt. Rescue does. The difference in use here, in my opinion, would be for power on versus power off. In other words, if you're flying and you get confused, activate Capt. Rescue and watch the heli climb out and then regain control. However, if you're flying and you lose tail rotor for example, then hit throttle hold with one hand and the leveler mode with another and your heli will level even if spinning but will not add collective which will rob precious head speed. I came up with this idea for this to use it like this, and mixed it to my idle up 2 switch, so normal and idle up 1 are flybarless flying modes, idle up 2 is the same head speed as idle up 1 but co-pilot enabled. I played with it the last couple of times out and it works well, though I have not decided whether I want to keep it enabled as its wierd to fly around with the co-pilot on you have to keep pushing forward to go forward. It would only be useful for throttle hold emergencies or maybe AP work to hold the heli level at altitude while you take pictures.

Food for thought, and Happy New Year to you guys!

-=>Raja.
MA 1005 Hanson 280, 4264 flts
Spectra 27 3DMax, 3392 flts
Whiplash V1-2 Hanson 300, 1808 flts
Whiplash V2 Hanson 300, 705 flts
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01-02-2012 12:28 AM  7 years ago
Tyler

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Chicagoland area

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Raj,

Why not set up two throttle hold modes? I know I can set flight mode 3 as throttle hold and also another flight mode 4 on the same three position switch with my transmitter, perhaps you can as well.

position one: Normal
position two: TH 3 as regular Throttle hold, not captain rescue
position three: TH 4 with captain rescue to level but not add pitch

Tyler
Enjoy things that money can buy IF you don't lose the things money can't buy.
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01-02-2012 02:30 AM  7 years ago
rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

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Thanks for the tip tyler!
On the JR radio that I'm using, I only have a 2 position throttle hold switch. Later this year if I move my gassers to the new Futaba radio that I got, I'll see about doing that as the throttle hold on that radio is 3 position.

I was out flying today and realized the Futaba radio does not fit well in my radio glove with the heater that I made, but the JR one does. For now I'll use the JR one and think about a solution by next winter season.

Fastflyer, one more thing I came in here to comment on for you:

Set your failsafe on the radio so that not only it throttles back, but it also enables the leveling mode on helicommand, (LED turns solid green on HC3SX when you power off the radio). This way should you ever lose the signal, even for a short period of time, at least the heli will level itself and go to idle until control is restored or if not at least hit flat on the skids and not auger in knife-edge.

All the best,

-=>Raja.
MA 1005 Hanson 280, 4264 flts
Spectra 27 3DMax, 3392 flts
Whiplash V1-2 Hanson 300, 1808 flts
Whiplash V2 Hanson 300, 705 flts
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01-02-2012 02:59 AM  7 years ago
Tyler

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Chicagoland area

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Maybe after spring comes you can try the tree position throttle hold idea.Enjoy things that money can buy IF you don't lose the things money can't buy.
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01-02-2012 03:28 AM  7 years ago
Eco8gator

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Palm Beach, FL

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The unit works.

The bailout works...BUT at least to me it scares the crap out of me. I feels very intrusive when its on and honestly makes me feel uneasy. And when it does the bail out its quite violent and you better not consider activating it low to the ground. And that bailout with failsafe idea scares me more...basically a heli with no control thats flying it self into something eventually....

Id say the feature is great for very basic use but using it as a crutch is not the best idea. Fly the sim or get an MCPX

C
Xera Motors
ProBar
Minicopter
Thunder Power
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01-02-2012 03:55 AM  7 years ago
rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

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My thoughts
The bailout works...BUT at least to me it scares the crap out of me.
You MUST have the collective set too high. I set mine on 5 out of 10 with 4 being the lowest. If you set it to 9 to 10 then its going to punch full collective and scare you for sure. With my setup its a gentle climb, do it a few times and get used to it and it won't be scary any more at all.

Self leveling with failsafe I feel is an added PLUS. If you're going to lose control might as well have the heli level as in my opinion if it does so you might regain control and save it than have it auger in quicker if it didn't level and drop throttle.

-=>Raja.
MA 1005 Hanson 280, 4264 flts
Spectra 27 3DMax, 3392 flts
Whiplash V1-2 Hanson 300, 1808 flts
Whiplash V2 Hanson 300, 705 flts
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01-03-2012 01:29 PM  7 years ago
Eco8gator

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Palm Beach, FL

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I tried the collective feature and did not like the idea of the vertical climb so I turned it off...never used it.

The reason is, it only takes one time for the feature to not completely level and then dart in some direction other than up and then you got some bigger issues.

The only feature of the leveling I liked is to go to upright level....it makes the most sense in terms of bailing someone out.

Dont get me wrong Im not saying the feature was bad, its pretty darn cool actually. I just dont feel that its a tool that should be consider a flight instructor and should only be used to bail someone out practicing basic manuvers like learning the upright or inverted orientations.

C
Xera Motors
ProBar
Minicopter
Thunder Power
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01-03-2012 01:37 PM  7 years ago
rstacy

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Rochester, NY

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The reason is, it only takes one time for the feature to not completely level and then dart in some direction other than up and then you got some bigger issues.
I agree that it would be bad.
Has that ever happened to anyone? It didn't get the heli level but still applied the pitch?
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01-03-2012 08:29 PM  7 years ago
Eco8gator

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Palm Beach, FL

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Me!

But this was before the current update...has not happened since.

Trust me it's a poop your pants moment that's for sure expecially when its in your direction

Before the current update, the units "level" position gets thrown off after doing some fips and flops. From there it got to an off set level darted in some direction.

As long as you didnt get too crazy it maintained the memorized level position quite well.
Xera Motors
ProBar
Minicopter
Thunder Power
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01-03-2012 08:55 PM  7 years ago
RobMcQuillen

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Rochester, NY

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Has that ever happened to anyone? It didn't get the heli level but still applied the pitch?
I have done tons of bail outs with the new firmware (fix) and never had an issue. This includes doing bail outs after a full 3d routine.

It keeps it's level horizon throughout

Rob
Rob McQuillen
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01-03-2012 09:04 PM  7 years ago
rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

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Actually
The unit used to sway off level if you flew non 3D more FAI style, but it never swayed that much to make it crazy scary. The offset from level would be a max of about 25 degrees if I was to estimate it.

When that happened all you had to do is some 3D, well really some pirouettes and it would be able to recalculate where level is and realign itself.

Now with the latest fix, that tendancy has been corrected 95%. It can maybe over time still sway ever so slightly off a perfect level, to a max of about 5 degrees. If you do some pirouettes, again, it will relearn level and be perfect dead nuts.

If you fly 3D with piros and such, then the unit will not drift as much as someone who doesn't. But even with that said, the drift has been greatly addressed, and its a non issue now.

-=>Raja.
MA 1005 Hanson 280, 4264 flts
Spectra 27 3DMax, 3392 flts
Whiplash V1-2 Hanson 300, 1808 flts
Whiplash V2 Hanson 300, 705 flts
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01-03-2012 11:54 PM  7 years ago
Eco8gator

rrElite Veteran

Palm Beach, FL

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I just recently took on a small favor to setup a brand new SX with the newest firmware.

Ill definitely put it through its paces and test the 3 different features thoroughly Im very happy to hear that the self leveling has been ironed out.

The fbl portion of it is great and I am glad the self level has been vastly improved.

Can't wait fly fly the new version.

C
Xera Motors
ProBar
Minicopter
Thunder Power
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01-04-2012 03:21 AM  7 years ago
rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

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Eco8gator
Definately chime back and let us know what you think

My only recommendation for you it set the collective mode with bailout function to 5 (range 4 to 10). This way its a calm climb and not shocking so to speak as a high number will make it suddenly burst upwards!

-=>Raja.
MA 1005 Hanson 280, 4264 flts
Spectra 27 3DMax, 3392 flts
Whiplash V1-2 Hanson 300, 1808 flts
Whiplash V2 Hanson 300, 705 flts
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01-04-2012 07:06 PM  7 years ago
Phoenix NOTAR

rrApprentice

Tallahassee, Florida USA

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If Dr. D's original question was only about the HC3-SX, I can not offer any opinion other then HeliCommand has been wonderful to work with, and to get questions / problems resolved very quickly.

I have two HC3-Xtreme units (no bail-out feature) on a large and very large scale, multiblade / flybarless helis. I found them easy to set-up and the stabilization system works great. I can fly these multi blade / flybarless helis in very windy conditions with no issues at all. Spool-up, lift-off, flight and landing/spool-down have been 100% un-eventful.

My only minor complaint is that the tail gyro function on my (very) large Vario R22 is not quite as good with the HC3-X, as some other tail gyro's on the market. But it is still quite useable.

Sandy
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01-04-2012 08:29 PM  7 years ago
TomC

rrKey Veteran

Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia

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Phoenix,

I found the same thing with my HC Rigid and just ended up installing a separate tail gyro. This works great and does not have any effect on the rest of the FBL system (or stablisation system either).

I'm just about to test my new HC3-SX and hopefully I will get a lot better tail performance with this newer technology. If not, I'll just bypass it and run a separate tail gyro again. I'll let you know.

Cheers,
TomC
Nqx,Mcpx-BL,300x,450x,500x,550x
Ion-x, 10s ,SS
TT X50E 10s, HC3-Sx
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01-04-2012 08:57 PM  7 years ago
Phoenix NOTAR

rrApprentice

Tallahassee, Florida USA

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TomC,

The reason I have not installed a separate Tail Gyro on My R22 is that I like to fly in "Heading Hold" mode, and the HC3-X system allows for a "pro-active" tail to main rotor pitch mixing. This is very useful if I need to add a lot of pitch all of a sudden to this heavy (30 lbs) gasser heli, as the tail pitch will change faster than a "re-active" heading hold only type gyro. These big helis need a very strong tail servo, and so they are not as fast as some of the new dedicated tail servos that are availible for sport or 3D helis.

You cannot typically add any mixing to a heading hold tail gyro (typically you can to a "rate" mode gyro system), but the Heli Command system lets you add this kind of mixing, and still have the benefits of the heading hold type tail gyro.

Sandy
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01-04-2012 09:05 PM  7 years ago
Nelson34

rrApprentice

San jose ca

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DGI WooKong makes a gyro, I actually was confused and thought it was the HeliCommand gyro-it has a bailout functions as well, but a hefty price tag. Century carries these-anyone know anything about them other than very expensive? Im looking for a easy to setup gyro for my Radicals-I have the 750 ready to setup but haven't had time yet.
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HomeRC & Power✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterFlybarless Rotor Head SystemsbavarianDEMON › HC3-sx....does it work for you?
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