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HomeScaleAircraftHelicopterScale Model RC Helicopters › Flybar Less on a 2 Blade Scale
11-18-2011 10:59 PM  6 years agoPost 1
MattJen

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UK

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I have nearly finished my zealous pod and boom machine, the real reason for this was to try a flybar less system on a 2 bladed machine before switching my longranger over to it.

I bought one of the MCPX flybarless micro machines, it does feel very different particularly on circuits.
It felt different compared to my 4 bladed sky fox EC135 I flew with nothing except the helitronix mixer all be it slow scale circuits.

I was wondering if has anyone has ever flown a 2 bladed machine without any kind of stabalisation ? Or as was posted in another thread on flybar less systems is this just one of those machines that will need some kind of stabalisation ?

The prev owner of my fuse did have a mixer that used pitot tubes above the swash pointing front and back, the guy said it was not nice to fly and when trying to do slow piro it would skew off horribly, but in fast forward flight it was fine..
Obviously stabalisation has moved on tremendously since those first mixers came onto the market.But it does seem from what i have seen these systems are still geared for the 3D market and struggle with the slower head speeds of us scalers.

So i was just looking for some info or examples, of 2 bladed SCALE machines flying with or without help.

Thanks
Matt

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11-19-2011 09:42 PM  6 years agoPost 2
dgoss999

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UK - Lancashire

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Hi Matt - I'll be up the field Sunday PM with my FBL (shuttle) Jet Ranger. You can try your hand with it...

/DG

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11-19-2011 10:24 PM  6 years agoPost 3
Mojave

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Palos Verdes, Ca. USA

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I fly vbar in all my machines and they don't struggle at all with lower head speed. The vbar is just 3 axis stabilization and really is not effected by head speed. The unit merely responds to changes in airframe attitude (relative to level and centerline of the airframe), which is the same as if the head were spinning at higher RPM. What you lose at lower headspeed is the added stability of a faster spinning disc, not control input. IMHO I think the biggest factor is the speed/TQ of the servos you are using and the chord width of the blade. When you slow the rotor down, all of the inputs become more critical. Any system will feel sluggish if the servos and power system aren't up to the task at hand.

I have flown this 3 blade test mule at lower head speeds and the only thing effected was TR authority. The disc felt softer at lower head speed, but no lack of cyclic control.
Barry

All helis and planes have an expiration date stamped on them...you only find it after you crash!!

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11-19-2011 10:54 PM  6 years agoPost 4
MattJen

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UK

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Mojave,
Thanks very much for your post, just the info I was after, thanks.
Nice machines you have there.
I forgot to mention with my current longranger/zealous pod and boom setup the head is a hiller only mix, no wash out, so by going FBL if anything it will make the head more sensistive to inputs.. if that is correct.

Dave,
Brilliant, I will be up at club field in the morning with the longranger also have some mail for ya.

thanks again both of you for the help.

Matt

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11-19-2011 10:57 PM  6 years agoPost 5
payne1967

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uk

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matt add some weight to ewilly 2 to just over the weight of the long ranger and try the fbl set up

i haven't yet got the lead out to my p&b fbl test bed but with the lower head speed its ok and the servo's aren't that quick on it either

with the 3 fbl set ups i've done i have flown them without the stab unit fitted to mechanicaly set the heli up with zero trim
once the heli is set correctly and flying ok i then and the stab system with the knowing that the heli fly's ok and anything odd is the stab unit set up

and i'm still awaiting to see the pictures

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11-19-2011 11:14 PM  6 years agoPost 6
MattJen

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UK

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matt add some weight to ewilly 2 to just over the weight of the long ranger and try the fbl set up

Thats the idea of the ewill 2, I have ordered some diving weights for this purpose, thanks for info, it will be the first 2 bladed FBL system i have flown in a scale application, I have had a go of a TREX 600 nitro, with a wapping head speed.

I will put up photos after weekend, I am meeting someone who has some better equipment than me, so he is going to help me cut a new base plate for the Ewilly 2.. once that is done i will put up a photo along with a video..

thanks for your info Payne1967
Matt

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11-19-2011 11:36 PM  6 years agoPost 7
payne1967

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uk

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i'm currently playing with a shuttle fbl with a view to putting the head onto my jet ranger
its had its first flights today and i've got to look at the elevator control system as its sticking in flight and making the heli a pig to fly
i've also got to look at the head phasing on this one as forwards/backwards inputs make the heli tilt to the side rather than in a staight line

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11-19-2011 11:39 PM  6 years agoPost 8
MattJen

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UK

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woooo scarey,

Matt

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11-20-2011 12:33 AM  6 years agoPost 9
Krumrick2

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Sao jose dos Campos Brasil

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hello Matt,

I mounted an old Robbe Futura SE II in Jet Ranger fuselage, converted to electric.

This one actually fly WITHOUT any stabilizer, just mechanical phasing and added weight at the tip of the blades ( 30grams in 800mm Carbon Blades.

Watch at YouTube

As you will see at the video is just awesome to fly, even with moderate winds, fast forward and piruetings.

I mounted others helis from 450's to 700's size, bigger the better in stability, for 700's size or bigger is not needed FBL's to stabilize, intended for scale, without aggresive maneouvers, the heli can fly really nice.

In the video below a test in 60 size withou stabilizers and NO weighted blades !.

Watch at YouTube

Hope this help !.

Manuel.

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11-20-2011 01:43 AM  6 years agoPost 10
Mojave

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Palos Verdes, Ca. USA

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Thanks! Flying vbar has seriously spoiled me I would not go back to FB or any unstabilized FBL head set up. Not saying that it can't be done, just that the heli is such a joy to fly with vbar. It's like having a 3 axis gyro on the rotor head. Rock solid hover in wind, pyros are perfect and forward flight is precise. These units are perfect for scale machines. It takes the fight out of flight and makes it so much more fun. It gives an average pilot the chance to truly enjoy flying and it makes you look like a real pro You leave the field with a big grin every time... Just my .02
Barry

All helis and planes have an expiration date stamped on them...you only find it after you crash!!

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11-20-2011 02:29 PM  6 years agoPost 11
helibeli

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wales.uk

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I'll be trying out a flybarless heli in the future and there's no way i'll be doing it without one of these flybarless units.I'll probably buy a beast x or similar because it gives you a manual adjustment option at the field.Having to take your laptop to the flying field to make adjustements is a no-no in my book.

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11-20-2011 03:50 PM  6 years agoPost 12
Mojave

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Palos Verdes, Ca. USA

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You can get an iphone app and use your phone as a link, or get the vbar pocket programmer. Just a thought... Not bagging on beast x, it's just that vbar is a tried and true proven performer. They were the innovators of FBL flight electronics.
Barry

All helis and planes have an expiration date stamped on them...you only find it after you crash!!

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11-20-2011 09:04 PM  6 years agoPost 13
doorman

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Sherwood, Arkansas

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Stabi On Two Bladed Fbl
I have had an excellrnt experience flying the Vario two bolt head and 800mm blades at 1250 hs on the BeastX in my Vario B enzine Jet Ranger. I moved to the BX when I did the e power conversion. The only other change that I did at the same time was to go to 3- 9452 digital Futaba servos instead of the 4 anolog servos that I used on e original build
It is nice to be able to make your normal changes in the tx just as you would with a fb head.
Over the past few years that I have been flying fbl, it seems the more blades the easier to fly if set up properly, with the 2 blade being the hardest. I have flown a 3,4, & 5 without stabilization, and each was ok, but a lot more fun with a stabi on them!
Just mt 2 cents from what I have learned. I have not tried thr vbar yet but just might on one of the future builds!
Good luck with whatever you choose... Stan

AMA 2918-Team Spin Blades,,Castle Creations, Unique Aircraft

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11-20-2011 11:43 PM  6 years agoPost 14
Mojave

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Palos Verdes, Ca. USA

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Good info Stan. I haven't tried BeastX yet either. If you get a sat ready vbar V5.0 or higher, the set up is super quick and very easy. The other benefit is you 86 your original RX in lieu of 2 sat antennas that plug directly into the vbar unit (JR systems). This eliminates a lot of wiring clutter and 1 more failure point in the system. I was tempted to try the new wookong system, but changed my mind because it's not sat ready. You have to run your own RX and for the coin they are asking, it should be sat ready. Just my .02
Barry

All helis and planes have an expiration date stamped on them...you only find it after you crash!!

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11-21-2011 12:39 AM  6 years agoPost 15
helibeli

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wales.uk

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Does it matter on the choice of dampers used with a 2 blade head ie. soft or hard?

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11-21-2011 12:39 PM  6 years agoPost 16
doorman

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Sherwood, Arkansas

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Dampeners
I have not changed any from the stock ones sent with the head. My thought is that the low hs reduces the need for the harder ones.

Sorry about the spelling errors. I am trying to get used to the touch pad on a tablet!! You have all heard of teaching an old dog new tricks haven't you!

If you have a chance, check out the new Spektrum AR7200BX. You know I will be trying one of these out when they become available!!

AMA 2918-Team Spin Blades,,Castle Creations, Unique Aircraft

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11-21-2011 03:17 PM  6 years agoPost 17
helibeli

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wales.uk

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That AR7200BX looks a brilliant idea,far less clutter.Why didn't anybody think of that before.I believe it's released for sale late january.

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11-21-2011 04:27 PM  6 years agoPost 18
payne1967

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uk

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the skookum 360 didn't like hard dampers in my sceadu
the std dampers work fine with it

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11-21-2011 05:46 PM  6 years agoPost 19
helibeli

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wales.uk

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Comparing the century red and black dampers,there's very little difference between them when you squash them between your finger and thumb.The black hard dampers are similar to the vario soft dampers in my opinion,unless the century red ones are very soft.

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11-21-2011 05:58 PM  6 years agoPost 20
Mojave

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Palos Verdes, Ca. USA

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Hey Stan, that AR7200BX looks to be a good idea and is competively priced. That explains why I have been seeing so many BeastX units for sale lately... Let us know how it tunes/flys.
Barry

All helis and planes have an expiration date stamped on them...you only find it after you crash!!

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HomeScaleAircraftHelicopterScale Model RC Helicopters › Flybar Less on a 2 Blade Scale
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