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T-REX 700 › Align Helical gears - Helical gears in general
11-16-2011 04:25 PM  6 years agoPost 1
Sam2b

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Tacoma, WA

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What is your experience using the new Align helical M1 gears? I'll hear both 600 & 700 gear experiences, but I'm really interested to hear of the 700 helical gear experiences.
  1. Is it truly more quiet?
  2. Any more efficient with increased flight time?
  3. Is anything breaking?
  4. Are your motor bearings surviving?
  5. How many flights do you have using these new M1 gears.
  6. What is the Align helical pinion gear made of?
  7. Is the Align helical main the same CNC quality as the Align CNC straight cut, or is it better quality?
Thanks. I hope to hear each question answered, please.

Helical Gear information:
http://www.agroengineers.com/gears/Helical-Gears.shtml
The teeth on helical gears are cut at an angle to the face of the gear. When two teeth on a helical gear system engage, the contact starts at one end of the tooth and gradually spreads as the gears rotate. Two mating helical gears must have equal helix angle but opposite hand. They run smoother and more quietly. They have higher load capacity, are more expensive to manufacture. Helical gears can be used to mesh two shafts that are not parallel and can also be used in a crossed gear mesh connecting two perpendicular shafts. They have longer and strong teeth. They can carry heavy load because of the greater surface contact with the teeth. The efficiency is also reduced because of longer surface contact. The gearing is quieter with less vibration.
Disadvantage:

A disadvantage of helical gear is the resultant thrust along the axis of the gear, which needs to be accommodated by appropriate thrust bearings. This can be overcome by the use of double helical gears by having teeth with a 'v' shape.

Lubrication:

Helical gears should be properly lubricated to: minimize wear, prevent the generation of excessive heat, improve efficiency through the reduction of friction between the mating tooth surfaces, reduce noise and inhibit the formation of rust. Good lubrication depends on the formation of a film thick enough to prevent contact between the mating surfaces. The relative motion between gear teeth helps to produce the necessary film from the small wedge formed adjacent to the area of contact.
It is important that an adequate supply of the correct lubricant is properly applied.
A straight mineral oil lubricant should be used for most parallel shaft applications. Under heavy load conditions, mild extreme- pressure (E.P.) lubricants are suggested.
Helical gears operating at right angles must always be well-lubricated. Extreme pressure (E.P.) lubricants are recommended.
Extreme pressure (E.P.) lubricants are not recommended on bronze gears.

_Sam B_

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11-18-2011 03:56 AM  6 years agoPost 2
AndyH

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Rockledge, FL

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My experience:

Went from the KDE gear to the slant recently.

1) Yes, definitely quieter!
2) Haven't noticed a difference
3) Nothings broken yet, about 10 flights so far on it
4) so far so good
5) about 10 - still getting a feel for em.
6) Not sure - typical grey metal pinion
7) same cnc quality as what? Not as good as the KDE gear, but seems adequate

I've been noticing some small shavings collecting on the gear, like a powder, but haven't really noticed any noticeable wear to the gear.

Hope this helps, I'm interested in other response to this as well.

This hobby is like Kryptonite to chicks!

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11-18-2011 04:35 AM  6 years agoPost 3
Twrecks600

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Round Rock, Texas

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I have been flying the helical gears on my 700E and here are my answers to your questions...

[*]Is it truly more quiet? Yes!! MUCH quieter.
[*]Any more efficient with increased flight time? Not noticeable
[*]Is anything breaking? Yes!! (see below)
[*]Are your motor bearings surviving? Toasted the stock motor bearings / shaft after 150 flights and the bearings on my new Hacker A50-12L after about 100 flights.
[*]How many flights do you have using these new M1 gears. See above
[*]What is the Align helical pinion gear made of? Not sure
[*]Is the Align helical main the same CNC quality, or is it better quality? I haven't had a main gear strip yet after many hard flights so I think it's OK!!

Team me

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11-18-2011 07:39 AM  6 years agoPost 4
Sam2b

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Tacoma, WA

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Twrecks, so you ran helical gears when both motors' bearings failed? Hmm, that's a bad trade for a quieter heli. That's where herringbone is great, but Mikado is the only one producing it. More expensive, but it seems herringbone is the best of both worlds: quiet and doesn't kill bearings.

_Sam B_

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11-18-2011 11:35 PM  6 years agoPost 5
Twrecks600

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Round Rock, Texas

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Yes, I had the helical gears on both motors. I have tightened up my pinion mesh and did a few other things to see if I can improve my luck!!

Team me

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11-19-2011 09:55 PM  6 years agoPost 6
Richardmid1

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Leeds, England

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Align helical pinion is aluminium but im not sure of the grade and has some sort of anadised coating. Ive actually stripped 2 align pinions but not harmed the main gear!

60% of the time, it works every time!

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11-19-2011 10:08 PM  6 years agoPost 7
PC12DRVR

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USA

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They are definitely quieter! Seem smoother as well. More contact area, should mean less chance of stripping as well.

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11-21-2011 01:27 AM  6 years agoPost 8
Sam2b

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Tacoma, WA

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I just noticed the Align helical "slant" main gear is has 112 teeth vs the stock straight cut 115T main gear. That can affect performance a little (+-2% headroom).

_Sam B_

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11-21-2011 01:36 AM  6 years agoPost 9
Riq

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ND

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Using the align slant gears has provided me the first time ive been able to enjoy my 700e without stripping gears. I went through mod7,1,kde, and now, finally, the slant align has worked great for me. No more babying my gov gain, and I can finally worry about the mod7 tails opposed to dirtcaking my setup with a bad maingear or bad (cc)esc.

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11-23-2011 04:19 PM  6 years agoPost 10
Sam2b

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Tacoma, WA

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Helical gears in general
In general, how many have destroyed motor bearings (or any bearings) just by using helical gears?

For those who aren't aware, helical thrusts the drive shaft parallel to the shaft itself causing unintended pressure on radial bearings.

Helical Gear information:
http://www.agroengineers.com/gears/Helical-Gears.shtml
Disadvantage:

A disadvantage of helical gear is the resultant thrust along the axis of the gear, which needs to be accommodated by appropriate thrust bearings. This can be overcome by the use of double helical gears by having teeth with a 'v' shape.
Our 'v' shape is Mikado's solution: herringbone gears

_Sam B_

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11-23-2011 04:26 PM  6 years agoPost 11
liftit

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Ofallon MO

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maybe be hard on oneway bearings as well then

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11-23-2011 09:11 PM  6 years agoPost 12
AndyH

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Rockledge, FL

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Motor designers should incoporate a thrust bearing in their designs to take the axial load. That would make helical gears awesome!

Also, 150 flights before a bearing change isn't bad at all!

This hobby is like Kryptonite to chicks!

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11-24-2011 01:42 PM  6 years agoPost 13
Twrecks600

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Round Rock, Texas

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@ Richardmid1

I am just about to have to order another helical gear as my teeth are shiny and pretty sharp!! Main gear looks fine though

Team me

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11-24-2011 02:25 PM  6 years agoPost 14
kenstick

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Fl

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Whatever

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11-24-2011 06:39 PM  6 years agoPost 15
Sam2b

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Tacoma, WA

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Sub topic: If I'm wrong about 112T, why are the gear ratio numbers different? The modulus is the same. Doing the math calculation clearly shows the +-2% claim of mine. Different than a car tire, here we have teeth driving teeth - a different story, especially if it is the same modulus. Numbers in the math calculation says it all.

_Sam B_

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11-24-2011 06:48 PM  6 years agoPost 16
brian94066

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San Bruno, California

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@kenstick

lol

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11-24-2011 08:05 PM  6 years agoPost 17
kenstick

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Fl

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teeth count do matter more teeth bigger the gear and that will change the speed but it all effects the size of the gear whatever. so size does matter never said The gear ratio is not part of the equation it is but it all effects the size it could be rubber wheels it would be the same speed only if you change the diameter you change the speed. anyway I used both gears on a converted 600esp 12s and there was no difference in anything even the noise that I could tell with these 2 gears helical will wear bearing out faster.....how can you say the diameter don't matter... bigger the size difference (or gearing ratio)
SIZE IS GEAR RATIO like pullies no gears there just size difference look up pullies http://www.rsl.ca/documents/technic...f%20pulleys.pdf teeth just make it easy to caculate

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11-24-2011 10:57 PM  6 years agoPost 18
brian94066

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San Bruno, California

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you're funny

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11-24-2011 11:13 PM  6 years agoPost 19
kenstick

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Fl

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I know LOL!!!

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11-25-2011 04:19 AM  6 years agoPost 20
Sam2b

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Tacoma, WA

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The gear ratio is part of the equation. When that number changes, the result of the equation changes. It's simple math. And 2% is significant when you've taken the time to meticulously experiment as I have. I'm not spewing numbers in estimation - I'm doing the math first.

If the diameter is the same between the 115T and the 112T gears, the size is irrelevant now. Even if the size is different, it is irrelevant. It is because teeth are driving teeth, and the gear ratio (math) shows the mechanical action. Obviously the helical gear shape doesn't allow the extra 3 teeth unless the size of the gear increases to accommodate 115 teeth. It's teeth numbers and gear ratio.

_Sam B_

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