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Miniature Aircraft Whiplash & Furion 6
› A few things I found with the Whiplash
11-18-2011 05:06 AM  6 years agoPost 121
blurz28

rrApprentice

usa

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I'm sure...
It has more to do with having the same servo layout for all 3 models... I haven't seen the Gasser or nitro frames but I'm gonna guess the tail servo is the same on all of them.
I can honestly say I have NEVER worried about cg before but this is my first flybarless heli and it makes sense to not make the electronics fight the imbalance...

3,2,1,...+1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14...

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11-18-2011 05:14 AM  6 years agoPost 122
elacitset

rrNovice

Leesburg, Va

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Justin, are you really surprised??? Evolution of most new kits result in modifications. If you don't want to be a test pilot (at your own expense), then just sit on the sideline and wait til V2.0 is released!

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11-18-2011 05:18 AM  6 years agoPost 123
Justin Stuart (RIP)

rrMaster

Plano, Texas

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But MinAir is historically a "measure twice, cut once" kind of company. Its unlike them to rush something to market without making sure it is perfect.

Avant RC
Scorpion Power Systems
Thunder Power RC
Kontronik Drives

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11-18-2011 05:19 AM  6 years agoPost 124
TmMugen

rrKey Veteran

Tiny Little Red Dot aka Singapore

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Well said! V2 please.

I am a noob flyer from Singapore! Team Nitro Magic

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11-18-2011 05:21 AM  6 years agoPost 125
jadams

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East coast USA

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Blurz. I like what you did. This won't be an issue on the nitro though. It is still a killer design. The problem is that it is very hard to test every single battery, esc and motor.

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11-18-2011 05:33 AM  6 years agoPost 126
elacitset

rrNovice

Leesburg, Va

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Nice job Blurz, that should be the solution Min Air uses. I don't see how revising the frame will cause "all sorts of trouble for guys trying to get parts down the line" according to Bobby's post earlier. The only problem might be if Min Air already cut a bunch of frames for stock kits, then there would be a monetary issue changing out all those frames.

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11-18-2011 06:09 AM  6 years agoPost 127
Dauste

rrApprentice

ES - UK

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heres your solution
I took the frame nuts out and redrilled holes for the servo to be mounted horizontally cut some of the frame and done....
Don't forget you don't have your canopy on, so your batteries actually won't need to be as far forward as you have them in your pictures. Nice idea to rotate the servo, that's along the lines I was thinking as well.

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11-18-2011 07:26 AM  6 years agoPost 128
BobOD

rrElite Veteran

New York- USA

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Justin, I hear where you're comming from and putting pressure on a vendor is always a healthy thing. But we shouldn't belittle things that seem simple on the surface...but just are not that simple. You have to consider all that it takes...and it's not just design and testing etc...there's economics and timing to consider as well.
I see a pretty unique design with real benefits...even as modified. And, I would expect revisions over the years....hope for them in fact. But, people today want it now...PLUS...it's going to be copied eventually. It's a cruddy reality, but you just can't sit on something good until you have it covering every little detail. Just doesn't work in this day....unfortunate...but it just doesn't. The true "expert in class" will not make 6 revisions and then revamp everything creating a whole new set of misses....nor will they stick to the same design for several years.

Just my 2c

Bob

PS: My choice would be to move the servo...and I would tare into it with joy and fervor.

Team POP Secret

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11-18-2011 08:05 AM  6 years agoPost 129
TomC

rrKey Veteran

Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia

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I think that Mr Mel's solution is best right now. Looks to me that this will allow you to move packs quite a bit more forward as well. I also agree with him that lowering the battery pack ~1/2 inch is not going to have that much of an effect, esp. since MA have already done a very good job of moving things like the motor up already.

I don't like the idea of rotating the tail servo since this will end up putting the whole tail servo heatsink on top of your batteries. This, together with an internal placement of the esc, is going to create a little easy-bake-oven in that area imho.

Also, I would re-mount the tail servo to the rear like the Ion-x's (rear frame and boom mounted). This is where it should be for an electric anyway. MrMel's mod should still allow you to get a good CG even with a rear mounted tail servo.

Cheers,
TomC

Nqx,Mcpx-BL,300x,450x,500x,550x
Ion-x, 10s ,SS
TT X50E 10s, HC3-Sx

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11-18-2011 12:43 PM  6 years agoPost 130
hndaluvr

rrNovice

Delaware

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I'm totally chuckling over this whole thing, and i think it's great to see all of the "Home Engineering" taking place.

This sort of issue can make the faint-at-heart buyer either look elsewhere, or wait till a revised edition is released.... But not ME... i'm STILL feverishly awaiting the arrival of my Whip. I want it NOW, just like it is, so that i can be actively involved in this.

Hey Bobby and the boys @ MA... sh*t happens, right?! I feel you guys have still done a fantastic job of bringing an exciting product to market.
Product improvement is a part of EVERY industry, this one is no different. And just think?... everytime you see one out at a field, it'll have it's own "Battery Tray" touch of personality!

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11-18-2011 01:07 PM  6 years agoPost 131
eddiscus

rrElite Veteran

Dumont, NJ-USA

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I would just like to thank Bobby Watts and Minature Aircraft for addressing this problem in a quick and efficient manner.

It was also nice to see the various solutions that fellow RR members have come up with. From the re locating of the battery tray to a more conventional lower location to changing the orientation of the tail servo.

I am still in the assembly process but decided to drill the 3 holes per frame. I slightly modified the locations from Bobby's solution placing the holes 1 1/8" forward of original location and raising the rear of the tray up 3/8" and the front down 3/8". This allows my thickest packs (Hyperion 6S 5000mah 45C) to slide between the servo and bottom front brace.

I will try the stock location first and see how close I come to a good CG with my packs. My 2 hyperions weigh in at 3 lb 9oz and the 2 pulse packs weigh in at 3 lb 7oz.

Logo Xxtreme 800
Logo 700
Citizen 142
Synergy 766
TDR 2

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11-18-2011 02:54 PM  6 years agoPost 132
hams

rrApprentice

Ohio

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This sort of issue can make the faint-at-heart buyer either look elsewhere, or wait till a revised edition is released.... But not ME... i'm STILL feverishly awaiting the arrival of my Whip. I want it NOW, just like it is, so that i can be actively involved in this.
I agree, but I want to urge those on the fence to just go ahead and get one. The drivetrain is solid, the tail is solid, the vertical cg is awesome and now the horizontal cg is a non issue. This is a solid heli.

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11-18-2011 03:46 PM  6 years agoPost 133
rcnut

rrElite Veteran

Rockford, Illinois

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With what Justin Stuart stated;
I think you guys have got to understand that Bobby designed his helicopter to work with a particular setup. If you use the same motor, same batteries, same ESC, same servos, etc that Bobby is using, then your helicopter will balance perfectly just like Bobby intended for it to balance.

You just can't expect a manufacturer to design an electric helicopter which is able to use every possible combination of batteries, motors, ESCs, etc, and still have a pleasing form factor.

Doesn't the Whiplash Electric come with a "suggested setup" in the manual?
I am like everyone else on this forum / planet, I have a brand of "something" (be it motors, servos, radios, FBL controlers, BEC, etc.) that "I" like to use. Now I know Justin's comments are his opinion, I don't want to be forced into buying "X" brand of whatever that I don't feel comfortable with or like. Case in point...I don't trust CC ESC's right now! Having a $2000.00+ heli go up in flames due to a electronic part malfunction...I couldn't handle that, not on a new heli build.

We are forced to do a lot of things in this world that "we" don't like... I am not going to be told what servos, motors, lipo's, ESC's, etc that "I have to" use to make it fly right.

If that's the case...I'll buy something else!
This sort of issue can make the faint-at-heart buyer either look elsewhere, or wait till a revised edition is released...
I agree, but I want to urge those on the fence to just go ahead and get one. The drivetrain is solid, the tail is solid, the vertical cg is awesome and now the horizontal cg is a non issue. This is a solid heli.
This may all be well and true...I think I'll wait for awhile before revisiting this heli. There was 4 total that I was looking at, and now I'm down to two of them.

This is just my opinion...

Team Miniature Aircraft
"I love the smell of Nitro in the morning!"
...Citizen 654!

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11-18-2011 03:57 PM  6 years agoPost 134
blurz28

rrApprentice

usa

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I seriously doubt
it was designed around a certian set of particular electronics....
or else the motor mount would have 1 set of motor mount holes... (it has many, also comes with different carbon spacers for jr servos, different monting positions for esc, 3 pinion choices, etc..) so the thought it was made for 1 set of particular electronics is nonsense.

its an easy fix... either a slant your battery or mount the tail servo horizontally.

as I said before, it was probably made the same as the nitro and gasser just to keep the cad design the same....

thats my guess.

3,2,1,...+1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14...

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11-18-2011 04:09 PM  6 years agoPost 135
Justin Stuart (RIP)

rrMaster

Plano, Texas

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At least we can get the designer of the Whiplash on the forums to discuss things with us. I don't remember the last time I saw Mr. Align on one of these forums. Or Mr. Kasama, or Mr. Outrage, or Mr. Logo, or Mr. TDR.

Miniature Aircraft may be a small company, and their stuff might be a tad expensive, but they are also an American company and it's good to support our own. At a very minimum, we need to support those who are active in this hobby. I know Scorpion motors are made in Taiwan, but the owner (Georges) is extremely active asking customers what they want and responding quickly.

Bobby is a good ambassador for this hobby, and I feel he has done a good job.

Avant RC
Scorpion Power Systems
Thunder Power RC
Kontronik Drives

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11-18-2011 06:20 PM  6 years agoPost 136
MinAirUSA

rrVeteran

Bavaria, Germany

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Guys,

Just wanted to let everyone know that we are taking the feedback here on the forums seriously. We are working with some easy fixes to get the CG spot on for any set up. When we were designing this model, we felt that people would opt for a receiver battery and perhaps a regulator as well. With a healthy receiever pack, and a regulator the model balances nicely.

We don't recommend using only a BEC with large electric models, but have come to realize that some people would like to. LiPo batteries are of course the heaviest component of the model, and they do vary substantially brand to brand. Because of the large amount of different brands of LiPo available it was not possible to try every brand of battery to test for CG during the development of the Whiplash. Of course the placement and choice of the rest of the end users electronics plays a role in CG as well. We here at Miniature Aircraft USA would like to assure you that we're working on some easy solutions for an aft CG.

Miniature Aircraft

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11-18-2011 06:21 PM  6 years agoPost 137
laddy

rrVeteran

Midland Texas

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Lets see if we can get Bobby Watts to do something,
fix you drawing so it will print 1:1 scale. Please.

Texas

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11-18-2011 07:17 PM  6 years agoPost 138
kcordell

rrElite Veteran

O Fallon, MO

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Bobby has already stated he saw what was wrong with the drawing and is getting it fixed. I'm sure he will post it here when it's done.

"aahhh... Just noticed that some of that box got clipped when exporting to PDF.. DOH!!! Ill try to get that fixed and re- uploaded. The vertical portion of the box is still 1"

Team Futaba, Team Synergy/Rail, Team Scorpion, Team Castle Creations, YS Engines, VelTye

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11-18-2011 07:19 PM  6 years agoPost 139
eo19

rrApprentice

Newberry, FL

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laddy
Lets see if we can get Bobby Watts to do something,
fix you drawing so it will print 1:1 scale. Please.
Texas
If you open in adobe and turn the scaling off it will print properly. My horizontal was slightly off but only because the upload is cutting off the right side. Print it and use your tray to verify. That's what I did and I drilled the holes with the template. It work perfect.

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11-18-2011 07:40 PM  6 years agoPost 140
Futura SE

rrKey Veteran

Fayetteville, Arkansas

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No offense to Main Air, but if you thought everyone would run a RX pack and a regulator then you know next to nothing about a electric heli.

That is a nitro setup. Electric guys want to charge one set of packs and go fly. Not charge RX pack and then go charge flight packs.

You sure can't say a mini-vbar with two sats and a Jive was going to be a oddball setup.

Making the assumption everyone will run a RX packs shows you have not looked at other electric heli's a lot.

How many places do you see on a Logo for a RX pack up front? It is probably one of the most popular heli's in the 600 class ever made.

Most e-heli pilots that are not nitro pilots either run a Jive or a Castle with a WR Super BEC and have a for a long time.

I'm not trying to be mean, the Whiplash electric just screams it was designed by a nitro mindset. It is a perfect setup for a nitro bird and I am 100% sure the nitro variant will not have this problem.

Norman Ross Jr.

Team Mikado USA -- Team Insane Canopy -- Team Scorpion -- Team Evo Power Batteries

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Miniature Aircraft Whiplash & Furion 6
› A few things I found with the Whiplash
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