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HomeAircraftHelicopterMain Discussion › My buddy's ICE2 bit the dust today..
11-18-2011 11:29 AM  6 years agoPost 101
rapidity

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ohio

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Heli guys think they're junk, airplane guys think they're bullet proof.

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11-18-2011 01:17 PM  6 years agoPost 102
kcordell

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O Fallon, MO

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Not all heli guys think they're junk.
There are many out there who have never had any issues whether it's from setting up very mild buy powerful systems and even those who push the envelope.

Team Futaba, Team Synergy/Rail, Team Scorpion, Team Castle Creations, YS Engines, VelTye

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11-18-2011 01:27 PM  6 years agoPost 103
rpat

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Weirton, W. Va.

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Yea I am one of those guys that think that they are bullet proof for airplanes also. I have an ice 75 in my Reactor and it performs perfect. My reasoning for this is that controllers in slabs are not working nearly as hard as controllers in helis. They plain just don't have the workload that they do in the helis.

trex 700fbl cal30,minititan,, trx600fbl,trex250,logo 500,Velocity N2

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11-18-2011 03:53 PM  6 years agoPost 104
Linkdead

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Indianapolis, IN

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WBFAir ask your question on the other forum and Patrick might come and explain it. Your basic understanding of how these controllers function is flawed.

Begin by reading this document http://atmel.com/dyn/resources/prod...nts/doc8012.pdf

The Amtel Mega168 is the MCU found in Kontroniks and Hobbywing speed controllers. Castle uses a SiLABs C8051F367 the datasheet is not complete with theory of operation the datasheets can be found at http://www.silabs.com/products/mcu/.../C8051F36x.aspx

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11-18-2011 04:27 PM  6 years agoPost 105
MrMel

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Gotland

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The Amtel Mega168 is the MCU found in Kontroniks
Just wanted to point this out as I saw that misinfo in other places a while back too;

As far as I know the AtMel in Kontroniks is ONLY for the logging function (which JLog among other using)
So it's not used for main processing, its another chip which I do not remember which one right now.

I.e. Jive has 2 MCU's

Gone fishing..or hunting..or something
My site: http://heli.dacsa.net - VBar videos and more

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11-18-2011 05:32 PM  6 years agoPost 106
Linkdead

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Indianapolis, IN

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11-18-2011 07:31 PM  6 years agoPost 107
Eco8gator

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Palm Beach, FL

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Hello

You guys are funny.

The atmel in the jive is not the main processor. They use a pretty powerful DSP(digital signal processor) processor... Castle uses an 8051 8 bit micro controller which is no where near as powerful as the DSP on kontroniks boards. With a more powerful and faster processor you can sample current inputs must faster and make decisions before something breaks. FETs have a maximum withstand rating and as long as you can sample fast enough you can see a problem before it blows stuff up...ill leave it at that.

DSP is on the left.

If I had to make the hard decision at castle these are the following things I would do.

C

Xera Motors
ProBar
Minicopter
Thunder Power

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11-18-2011 10:20 PM  6 years agoPost 108
WBFAir

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Stamford, CT - USA

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Linkdead For sure this topic at this level is a very complicated one, and not that I'm saying this as a statement or response one way or the other to your responses but for a format like this board, I think it really can't be discussed to the proper conclusions as it just to complicated and this format is just to limiting and greatly prone to misinterpretation.

But having said that, I think I understand it pretty well, and really at the end of the day the end results of how these things work is pretty much the proof that I do.

Simple put, the Kontroniks ESC's are not just some Castle level controller with a BEC in them that just has some slightly better programming that they just decided to be sleazy on and slap an extra $200.00 price tag on as the people who make them are just greedy.

Its auto system is a true one and if you think the Castle one is, then throw the timing to custom then to 20, and the PMW to 24 Khz and go out and smack your helo around on a 100 degree day and let me know what happens.

Or just put it to any of the presets that are not the right ones for your motor and see the diff in the log.

And just to make one other point and although it may sound like it, this is nothing personal against you, but as far as going on another forum and talking about this stuff with Pat....first of all from just a pure technical standpoint, you are talking about the head of a company who has released multiple revisions of ESC's that have all burned and you think this guy is someone to talk to about how to properly build a ESC?

And as well, given how they have handled that with tons of denial denial and denial, multiple flat out lies and as far as I am concerned, a major abundance of contempt for us with the way they behaved with things like blaming their customers and letting their models burn and overall continually putting Castles best advantages of all of this over the damage they have done to their customers...and with all that you think this is a guy who is going to be giving me, you or anyone the straight scoop on how poorly and/or defectively they build their products?

I'm sorry but going to Patrick del Castillo for the discussion you suggested would be like going to Bernie Madoff for a discussion on Moral Economics.

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11-18-2011 10:33 PM  6 years agoPost 109
classic

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All over the place!

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Great post! ^^^

Which is worse, ignorance or apathy? I don't know and I don't care!

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11-18-2011 10:39 PM  6 years agoPost 110
sks

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london

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I always had a feeling that the Kontroniks were never overpriced and that the engineering in them sets them apart from other speed controllers.

I suppose its the difference between a JR heli and the Aligns.

I've heard enough, I'm getting a Jive. Meanwhile I suspect that this thread has a political motive behind it which I don't quite care for. This is a shame because we should only be here for an objective discussion. And I don't intend to rub people up the wrong way with that comment.

Having said that Kontronik has probably done more development and thought into ESC than any other manufacturer out there so is it any surprise that theirs is so damn good?

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11-18-2011 11:14 PM  6 years agoPost 111
Furyous

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Detroit, Michigan

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You know that a manufacturer is using the best components when no one is even attempting to produce a knock-off for half the price.

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11-18-2011 11:18 PM  6 years agoPost 112
OICU812

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Edson, Alberta, Canada

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You know that a manufacturer is using the best components when no one is even attempting to produce a knock-off for half the price.
^^True Dat!

...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...

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11-18-2011 11:24 PM  6 years agoPost 113
FenderBean

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Fort Hood TX

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This is why I will keep to my nitro, never seen a nitro catch fire, unless the battery did.

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11-18-2011 11:47 PM  6 years agoPost 114
Stephen Born

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USA

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and a 110hv on my 700e
Now that is one CC esc you do not have to worry about. I also fly the 110HV on my T-Rex 700e and have never had any problem with it.
With the ICE system, whats the point with data logging if your heli is up in flames.

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11-18-2011 11:47 PM  6 years agoPost 115
JOLT

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Baltimore, MD

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I also wanted to point out that the comparison between Kontronik and CC Ice HV ESC is very close in that between the Castle Pro BEC and the Western Robotics Hercules BEC.

You spend more then twice the price, but you have more confidence in a set up that just works. I am not trying to fan flames here, but there is a common denominator in these comparisons and Castle Creations keeps coming up on the wrong side of things.

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11-19-2011 02:24 PM  6 years agoPost 116
unclejane

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santa fe, NM, USA

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>I've heard enough, I'm getting a Jive. Meanwhile I suspect that this thread has a political motive behind it which I don't quite care for. This is a shame because we should only be here for an objective discussion. And I don't intend to rub people up the wrong way with that comment.<

Sorry, there's just no such thing as an objective discussion on ESC's, or anything else for that matter, on any heli forum. I sympathize, but there's not much that can be done about it. Pick out and read what you want and ignore the rest .

As for going with the Jive, the only caution I'd offer is that it does go coo-coo with certain motors like the Align. There are also reports of mild problems with certain Scorpion motors. KSA mode is available for those and that may or may not completely solve problems.

Otherwise, I'd also suggest getting the HeliJive if you can find one in stock anywhere. And that's only because it has a heli-specific bailout mode as well as a couple other heli-specific features (that I can't recall off the top of my head now). Not a big deal unless you do lots of autos, tho.

The Kontronik, despite my earlier comments, I still consider to be the top-of-the-heap ESC. Easy to setup, a solid-as-granite governor and with a BEC to die for. Also, on my 700E, my Jive 120 ran quite a bit cooler than my CC ICE2, even without a heatsink on the plate. The Jive was only warm to the touch after a flight, whereas my ICE2 is pretty hot afterwards, that's with approx. the same headspeed, same batts, etc.

I'm slowly drifting back to nitro myself, so it's less and less likely I'm going to put any more money into electric going forward.Otherwise I'd probably get another 700E to use the Jive with. The electric just seems to stay at home most of the time and the nitro is the one that jumps into the pickup more and more of the time. So I don't know if my Konnie will ever power another heli of mine or not.

Maybe if the ICE2 burns up...

LS

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11-19-2011 02:39 PM  6 years agoPost 117
Furyous

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Detroit, Michigan

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By the way, I have nothing against Castle escs. I just want what I pay for to work. I have a Castle 120 V2 that I will be running with a Gryphon BEC. I would not be doing this, if I felt there wasn't a benefit to a less expensive system. I just hope nothing goes wrong.

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11-19-2011 02:55 PM  6 years agoPost 118
WBFAir

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Stamford, CT - USA

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I'd like to point out and this is nothing personal unclejane that the Jives going coo-coo with Align motors point isn't a definite.

As I have stated many times in this thread, I have an Align 700 MX motor on my 700 that is just the same model as yours and I am using a HeliJive and it works just fine.

And there are many others with Jives who have the same and theirs work fine too.

Again it has been stated many times that Align motors quality of parameters can be hit or miss and the reaction of the Jive having a issue with that is just it reacting to the deficiencies of that particular "one" motor as it just happens to be one of these...... but it is not a definite for every one that is made and for sure there are far more ones working just fine then not.

Btw I've been meaning to mention and not that I am saying that this would have solved your problem but just to point out for sake of clarification, that with a ProgCard, or ProgDisk, it is possible to take the Jive out of Auto and adjust some of the settings of the timing.

There is Auto, -5, +5 & +10.

As of yet I have never herd of anyone running them in anything but Auto, nor herd of anyone who was having any issues with a bad Align motor that then put it to one of these settings and it fixed it.

But I just thought I would mention it as it was mentioned that the Auto setup was the only possibility and if you are having a problem in that, you are stuck, that actually there are others.

Btw the new HeliJives (V11) are in stock at ReadyHeli

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11-19-2011 03:21 PM  6 years agoPost 119
deafheliflyer

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Arizona

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kronnies
It has been told many times... You get what you pay for in this hobby.. Ive been in this hobby close to 8 years and it rings truer every time..

TP packs = 458 cycles and going strong.... Turnigy flopped at 92 cycles and Voltz flopped at 113 cycles.. Even outrages puff up..

Four of my CC ESC's went up in flame..... Krontronik.. no issues.. I told a friend of mine that it was a matter of time before his CC went up in smoke... Well... it did a few weeks later.. it was a no brainer.

Align = replacing links etc vs Logo, went a LONG way before anything had to be replaced..

Ive told people this many times.. You DO get what you pay for.. Especially when you get into the advanced stages of flying..

But hey.. thats just me Not trying to start a flame war but, those that consistently have helicopters which do not fail mechanically/are meticulous with their birds.. seldomly have issues that people who "cheap out" on things have...

Just my observation but hey.. I could be wrong

Crash-Prone and overcoming it!!!

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11-19-2011 03:22 PM  6 years agoPost 120
unclejane

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santa fe, NM, USA

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>I'd like to point out and this is nothing personal unclejane that the Jives going coo-coo with Align motors point isn't a definite.

As I have stated many times in this thread, I have an Align 700 MX motor on my 700 that is just the same model as yours and I am using a HeliJive and it works just fine.<

Agreed - I'm only saying that it's just something to be aware of if you're running the Align motor. It was certainly a surprise for me when the motor jumped off the table almost taking the ESC and batts with it the first time I tried to do a runup with mine (I did the soldering/testing/programming on the bench before I started my 700E build and had the motor on a test stand). I only found out about the issue after that.

And like I said, it's unlikely that I'm going to continue with electric anyway, so I probably won't get the chance to use my Konnie with a better motor.

Maybe when battery technology comes out of the stone age I'll revisit electric. Meanwhile, the 700E is just a backup for when things strip, break or fall off the nitro ...

LS

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HomeAircraftHelicopterMain Discussion › My buddy's ICE2 bit the dust today..
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