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HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › CC Cappack......
10-30-2011 07:36 PM  7 years agoPost 1
litespeed600

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St. Charles, Missouri

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For those of us that need it,

http://www.castlecreations.com/prod...c-cap-pack.html

Pretty cool.

Married with 2 kids, I am no stranger to pain!

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10-30-2011 08:01 PM  7 years agoPost 2
Eco8gator

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Palm Beach, FL

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With the smart engineers at that company....what were they thinking? I see explosions in their near future if they don't make it 100% clear to make sure that cap bank is insulated!!!!!

Not to mention that with the added capacitance the inrush current will be higher! So now more than ever there will be a need for a soft start circuit which they could have EASILY put on that PCB to save you effort.

Come on guys THINK!

C

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10-30-2011 08:11 PM  7 years agoPost 3
Heli 770

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USA.

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They tell you to put shrink wrap over it.

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10-30-2011 08:13 PM  7 years agoPost 4
dkshema

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Cedar Rapids, IA

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Step three of the installation instructions take care of the insulation concern you expressed:

Inrush current limiting would be nice, of course the cost will go up, the unit will be larger, and we'd all miss that exciting snap of electricity and the smell of ozone from plugging in the battery pack.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

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10-30-2011 08:16 PM  7 years agoPost 5
Eco8gator

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Palm Beach, FL

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The extra cost would be WELL worth it. A simple resistor with the bypass wire would be more than acceptable.

And in an ad you MUST show the product as it is intended to be per the manual. Showing an open board may make for a better picture but you'll be surprised at how many people actually use that picture as their instruction manual and not read the actual manual.

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10-30-2011 08:19 PM  7 years agoPost 6
Eco8gator

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Palm Beach, FL

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BTW, Caste has developed an auto soft start circuit for an ultra high voltage esc that never come to market. I held the unit in my hands about 4 years ago...very cool looking

It would be SWEET if they released that system with the cap bank!

Id pay 50 bucks for that and it would be applicable to almost all ESC's that don't already have that feature.

C

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10-30-2011 09:07 PM  7 years agoPost 7
Richardmid1

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Leeds, England

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Why don't they just make their ESC's with bigger or more caps in the first place?!

60% of the time, it works every time!

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10-30-2011 09:07 PM  7 years agoPost 8
dkshema

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Cedar Rapids, IA

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Why don't they just make their ESC's with bigger or more caps in the first place?!

Bet that baby sparks when you plug in!

-----

Not sure that an AD must show exactly how the product is to be used. I've seen a LOT of TV commercials where I don't think that requirement has been applied.

Seems that Bud Light has people living in a house made out of their product. Now THAT's an acceptable use of the product, and of how it should exactly be used.

Hmmm...toilet tissue seems to come to mind, too. Never see that being applied for its intended purpose in an ad...not sure I'd WANT to.

-----
Dave

* Making the World Better -- One Helicopter at a time! *

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10-31-2011 03:27 AM  7 years agoPost 9
RCSavager

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Topeka, KS

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Might I suggest bullet plugs between the ESC and the cap unit. That way when the ESC goes nuclear you have half a chance to rip the damn thing off your bird before it lights up the whole thing without getting hung up on added electronics. The ESC wire will rip off but try that with 8-gauge wires. Just trying to be helpful.

Once you try steak, is hard to go back to hotdogs.

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10-31-2011 03:32 AM  7 years agoPost 10
Justin Stuart (RIP)

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Plano, Texas

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That's what Tim Jones has been using for the last couple years on his Trex "Beast", right?

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10-31-2011 05:21 AM  7 years agoPost 11
Futura SE

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Fayetteville, Arkansas

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Funny... my Jive 120HV and Jive 80HV only have two capacitors on each one of them... hmmm. Jive 80 has been in constant service for 3 years now and one hard crash. One cap has a micro dent in it.

I saw Castle with a prototype ESC as well. I mean how hard would it be to cut a Jive open and take a look see. I don't think there are any world wide patents on the thing.

I really don't think you can make a Jive for what a Castle sells for. Maybe Kontronik is making a fortune off each unit. At least they WORK.

Saddest thing of all is until the Ice line was created castle had a great reputation. Worst product they ever created. It is the "Cadillac Cimarron" for Castle.

Rather than come up with crappy solutions like this. If the controllers need it put them on at the factory, if they don't then... well they need something, that's for sure.

START OVER, what is the worst that can happen, a new controller that burst into flames? They used to be able to design good products.

Norman Ross Jr.

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10-31-2011 05:34 AM  7 years agoPost 12
Justin Stuart (RIP)

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Plano, Texas

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I have heard several people say that Castle Creations needs to go back to the drawing board and start from scratch with the design of their high voltage speed controllers. I guess I don't understand the electronics of a speed controller well enough to know exactly what the problem is (or perhaps what the problem was before the Ice V2), but in a general sense, why can't they just change the rating on their controllers? Why not just say, for example, that a Ice 120 is now only good for 80 amps?

I don't fly Castle, but if I did I think I would probably just go ahead and buy an Ice 160 "just in case" even though an Ice 120 is probably adequate. Personally, I see no point in pushing an ESC right up to the point of failure. Why not make sure that you're nowhere near pushing the limits of the ESC?

When I used to fly cheap "no name" ESCs, I would buy something like an 80 A "mystery" ESC to put on a Trex 450 and never ever had a problem with it. I knew the motor would only pull about 35 to 40 amps max, and since I had an 80A ESC, I had nothing to worry about with overamping.

Isn't the real problem that people are simply putting too much power through too small of a speed controller?

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10-31-2011 05:42 AM  7 years agoPost 13
Futura SE

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Fayetteville, Arkansas

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Justin,
When you turn the hold switch off and the ESC busts into flames that ain't too much amperage my friend

I mean how many amps does it take to rotate a set of blades a revolution or two before giving up the ghost.

The only solution is to design a new controller from the ground up. Period.

I'd almost die to know a Kontronik engineer's thoughts on a Castle Ice 120 after having throughly examining it. I promise he could tell you the problem and probably would not need long to do it and for some reason it totally eludes Castle Creations or maybe it doesn't, maybe ownership just isn't willing to let the ICE project die. $$$$ is the root of the problem, that you can be assured of.

If Jive 120 HV's were $199 at RH these threads would never exist.

Norman Ross Jr.

Team Mikado USA -- Team Insane Canopy -- Team Scorpion -- Team Evo Power Batteries

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10-31-2011 06:06 AM  7 years agoPost 14
Justin Stuart (RIP)

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Plano, Texas

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I know that brushless ESCs have only been around in this hobby for a few years now, but I never recall ESCs shooting out flames before. Yes, brushless (and even brushed) ESCs would fail, but it would be more of a "melting down" that anything else.

I first started flying brushless electric in about 2007, and I remember back then all of the ESCs (except for the Novak car ESCs) were wrapped in heat shrink tubing. When they would fail, they would have some component inside short out causing a black melted spot in the heat shrink. But never flames.

With the Castle Ice series, flames literally shoot out the side of the case.

I know that for a long time the brushless ESC were maxing out at either 18 cell NiMH or 6 cell lipo, and now most of us are running 12s lipo which is twice the voltage. So if amperage is not the problem, then is voltage the problem? Which is to say that if a Jive fails (and they do occasionally fail), are flames produced but the flames are just held inside by the red plastic? And if Castle encased their ESCs in potted plastic would that solve the problem?

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10-31-2011 11:08 AM  7 years agoPost 15
Wave

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Illinois

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Justin, It was not an issue of current on the FET's. It was a voltage problem.

They were spec'd right on 50 volts, so if there was any kind of voltage ripple from the power system then the ESC would smoke instantly. ( engineers NEVER design without a factor of safety...except Castle of course ).

Do you believe that it took them over a year to figure that out ?

If so then I have a bridge I can sell you.

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10-31-2011 12:28 PM  7 years agoPost 16
Justin Stuart (RIP)

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Plano, Texas

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Oh, so it is a voltage ripple issue. I see.

When I build something electronic (like a stepdown diode for my tail rotor servo), I typically buy a 3A 50V diode even though I know good and well that I will only be sending at most 1 amp and 6 volts through it. I figure that the extra weight and extra cost of the larger component is negligible, and I would much rather never have to worry about that part failing than to choose a smaller component thus saving a few cents or a few grams.

Why then can't Castle use 100V FETs instead of the 50V FETs which it appears they are using, thus making the capacitor bank unnecessary? I would imagine that FETs spec'd for 100V would not be significantly larger, heavier, or more expensive than FETs spec'd for 50V.

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10-31-2011 02:29 PM  7 years agoPost 17
Thatlumox

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NY

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When you turn the hold switch off and the ESC busts into flames that ain't too much amperage my friend
I mean how many amps does it take to rotate a set of blades a revolution or two before giving up the ghost.
An electric motor draws the most current when it first starts. The back EMF is very low so the amp draw through the motor is the highest. As the motor starts to spin and back EMF builds which counteracts the applied voltage causing the current to decrease.
I could go into more detail but if Google back EMF, also called counter EMF as well, you'll get a much better explanation than I can write out.

"I'm a dirt torpedo!"

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10-31-2011 02:36 PM  7 years agoPost 18
Richardmid1

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Leeds, England

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I blame the length of the power cables on the ICE esc's, they are too long and people don't want to shorten them. Look at the length of the power cables on a Jive, they are half the length of the CC cables!

LENGTHEN THE MOTOR CABLES INSTEAD.

60% of the time, it works every time!

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10-31-2011 10:13 PM  7 years agoPost 19
Heliguychris

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Perth, West Australia

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this guy has figured it out..... http://www.archeli.com.au/forums/sh...ad.php?t=147829

i believe the laymans description was that the circuits are too long on the boards....or something

Licensed (CASA) UAV operator certificate holder 1-YFOF5-01 www.helicamaerial.com.au

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10-31-2011 10:22 PM  7 years agoPost 20
Justin Stuart (RIP)

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Plano, Texas

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Nice find on that thread. Interesting read. I think Castle should hire that guy as their lead engineer.

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HomeAircraftHelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › CC Cappack......
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